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Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#641

Post by seemaze »

nabla9 wrote: post #350
nabla9 wrote: post #327

Apple’s App Store profits on commissions from digital sales Revenue $32 B Operating Costs $7 B [1] Estimated Profit $25 B Operating Margin ~78% [1] R&D, security, hosting, human review, and including building and maintaining developer tools Xcode, APIs, and SDKs. Apple could take just 7% cut and still make 20% profits. Fun Fact: During the Epic trial, it was revealed that Apple's profit margins on the App Store were…

The operating cost is the maximum Apple can come up with when their accountants attribute everything they possibly can to digital sales for the sake of legal argument. R&D shouldn't really be included, and Apple uses those same tools and APIs themselves. I think the actual profit margin is closer to 90%, and Apple could maintain a 20% margin with just a 3–4% fee.

Certainly not defending Apple's behavior in this instance, but isn't the success of the larger product ecosystem a direct driver of their App Store profitability? To strictly evaluate the App Store finances in isolation seems to be the sort of accusation you've levied against Apple in the opposite direction..

I like Apple less and less these days for various reasons, but I haven't purchased an app on the App Store in more than a decade. It's strictly a vehicle for local utilities when, for whatever reason, a browser will not suffice. Nearly all purchasing is done on the 'open' web.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#642

Post by MadameMinty »

rob74 wrote: post #412
nabla9 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The operating cost is the maximum Apple can come up with when their accountants attribute everything they possibly can to digital sales for the sake of legal argument. R&D shouldn't really be included, and Apple uses those same tools and APIs themselves. I think the actual profit margin is closer to 90%, and Apple could maintain a 20% margin with just a 3–4% fee.

I'd say that in the case of Patreon, any fee for Apple is unjustified. Apple can justify their fee on app purchases/subscriptions in the app store, but Patreon is not an app subscription, the money goes mostly from the patrons to the people they support. Ok, Patreon takes a cut to cover their operating costs, and also make a profit (not sure how profitable they are currently), but I really can't see how Apple, who do…

Next up, 2% cut whenever you use any banking or payment app. Only 1.5% when you use Apple Pay!

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#643

Post by kllrnohj »

sevenzero wrote: post #299
mhitza wrote: post #203

Just stop publishing the app, not every little thing needs an app. What the use for the app anyway? Notifications and apple pay?

Apps are usually built so people can't skip ads. Its the only reason to have an app. Other than esoteric reasons like "we also have an app because x,y,z also have apps".

I don't think that applies to Patreon which, as far as I know, doesn't have any ads in the first place?

The app might make it easier for them to enforce DRM-like behaviors to prevent people from pirating creators content, but I strongly suspect people aren't doing that on iOS regardless.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#644

Post by cedws »

kg wrote: post #639
cedws wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that 30% is high but the arguments I see online are generally in favor of a cut to 0%, not a reduction. If you get into the weeds of what the cut should be then it gets messy, who gets to decide? How do you determine what is actually fair for all parties? I would argue Patreon is far more parasitic than Apple in this case, they're shaving off 10% for a pretty simple service.

Payment processors are generally really wary of services like Patreon. Cohost tried to set one up and was unable to find someone willing to stick by a commitment to process payments for an equivalent service. I think it's reasonable to say Patreon shouldn't take 10%, but you can't ring up Visa and get a regular 2-3% rate from them for something like Patreon, most likely, due to things like brand risk, chargeback rate…

Thanks, I didn't consider these things.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#645

Post by kllrnohj »

FireBeyond wrote: post #638
cedws wrote: post #620

There's a kind of dissonance here that Patreon should be allowed to take a cut, being a platform on which creators can earn money - but Apple should not be allowed to take a cut, being a platform on which companies can operate their business.

Apple has already been compensated in the form of $1,000-$1,500 for the phone.

Apple was also compensated by Patreon in the form of the developer fee.

This is the triple-dip attempt.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#646

Post by fauigerzigerk »

jorvi wrote: post #624
wlesieutre wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I wouldn't be that shocked if Apple tried demanding a 30% royalty on bank deposits and bills paid using iPhone apps. They've decided the future of their company depends on being huge assholes about it.

Something interesting is that Apple and Google Pay charge a tiny commission (don't have the number at hand). Which banks didn't like, so at least on Android they created their own NFC payment stacks for a while. Only to then discover that maintaining such a stack cost them more per year than the commission.

I think Google Pay does not charge a fee.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#647

Post by realusername »

browningstreet wrote: post #630
TheDong wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably you also would agree that it's fair if Chrome, Windows, and Lenovo all charged me 30% each for using Patreon via Chrome+Windows on a thinkpad, right? They're doing about as much to facilitate my use of Patreon as Apple is. This isn't like a mall at all. This is like a web browser, where apps are webpages, and Apple is insisting that the contents of that webpage are something they can dictate all payment te…

Chrome, Windows and Lenovo don't have the payment system baked in, with all the consumer protections that come with it. I'm not entirely pro-Apple percentage in this argument, but I think people often dismiss the magical thing that Apple created with the app store and their payment/subscription system. The rest of the world keeps ripping users off, and Apple's walled garden is as protected a thing as it gets. I've go…

They can offer to cancel or reverse subscriptions because you paid 5x that subscription amount just in fees.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#648

Post by linkregister »

samrus wrote: post #523
stouset wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> downloading and using packages & executables from the internet Oh boy, now my mom can get the full experience of having malware on her phone too!

I hate the classic apple users' "mom" argument. Why are all your moms morons? And why do you want to fuck up the entire mobile landscape to baby proof it for them. Im not gonna ruin my experience with technology because you dont expect your mom to be able to wipe her ass without apple's help

There is nothing stopping you from using non-Apple hardware to escape restrictions on downloading unreviewed software.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#649

Post by nozzlegear »

archerx wrote: post #477
chii wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could opt out - by sticking to web platforms. Apple cannot charge for that. However, apple does attempt to gimp the web platforms on mobile to "subtly" push for apps.

They do and it’s awful. I’m making a browser based game and it works great on desktop browsers but Apple refuses to allow css filters on canvas forcing you to build your own filters and apply them to image data. The web audio api is also a pain to get working properly on iOS safari and a bunch of other arbitrary but feels like they’re intentional obstacles found only on iOS. I’m almost considering just using webgl in…

> Not even in the days of IE was I ever this frustrated.

I've been web devving since the days of IE as well and this reeks of hyperbole. Maybe things are different for browser games, but for me, everything has vastly improved since those days.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#650

Post by ryukoposting »

If I'm patreon, here's what I'm doing:

Jack up every Apple user's monthly payment by 30%.

When they go into the app to figure out what the hell happened, they will find big red text saying "want to avoid the Apple tax? re-subscribe through our website! (Link)"

They click the link, it opens a webpage where all the payment info has been auto-filled. They click "ok." Bam, fee gone.

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