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Rivian Unveils Custom Silicon, R2 Lidar Roadmap, and Universal Hands Free

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641–650 of 670 posts

Re: Rivian Unveils Custom Silicon, R2 Lidar Roadmap, and Universal Hands Free

#641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a car guy you should know that there's tech in cars these days. Or do you calibrate everything from tpms monitors to re pointing/tunes in your garage? If something's wrong with your car's head unit firmware or android auto connection or whatever, of course you'd have a technician look at it?

> Or do you calibrate everything from tpms monitors to re pointing/tunes in your garage? Pretty much, yeah. I race SCCA and build race cars. Exactly why I want nothing to do with these, you don’t own it. You’re leasing the hardware that’s hogtied to the software.

Oh man, you're in for a bad time then, as pretty much everything - yes even amateur racing cars - has software in it now, and you don't own any of it.

As a car guy, it surprises me you weren't aware of this trend yet but I guess we all find out sooner or later. But hey - maybe that '89 Carrera will keep on trucking for a few more decades though - good luck!

Re: Rivian Unveils Custom Silicon, R2 Lidar Roadmap, and Universal Hands Free

#642
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be implying that all automotive lidar are 1550 nm but that's not true. While there are lots of 1550 nm automotive lidars (Luminar on Volvo, Seyond on NIO) there are also plenty of 850 nm to 940 nm lidars are used in cars (Hesai, Robosense, etc). Those can pass through water and get focused to your retina, but they are also a lot lower power so they do not damage cameras.

NGL I thought sub 1550nm LIDAR had been banned for use in new automotive applications already? I clearly must be mistaken but I had thought that was the case.

Not banned. In addition to the Chinese lidars I mentioned, the Valeo Scala on Audi cars is 905 nm, and then there are also Ouster (865 nm), Innoviz (905 nm), Livox (905 nm) etc. The large spinning lidar on top of the Waymo Jaguar I-Pace is also purportedly 905 nm, although in the past they also had a swivelling 1550 nm lidar in the dome of the Chrysler Pacifica cars (situated just underneath a smaller spinning 905 nm one).

The eye safety threshold for 850/905 nm is a lot lower than 1550 nm, so they output way less power, but the much better sensitivity of silicon sensors makes up for it partially. You can also squeeze out more range using clever signal processing and a large optical aperture (which allows you to output more light, but since the light is spread out across the aperture, the intensity doesn't exceed the threshold). Typically, the range of 850/905 nm lidars is less than that of 1550 nm lidars though.

On the bright side, due to lower power, there hasn't been any instances (to my knowledge) of 850 nm and 905 nm lidars damaging cameras, whereas at least two different 1550 nm lidars have been known to destroy cameras (Luminar and AEye).

On the Luminar lidar website [1] they proudly advertise "1,000,000x pulse energy of 905nm".

[1] https://www.luminartech.com/technology

Re: Rivian Unveils Custom Silicon, R2 Lidar Roadmap, and Universal Hands Free

#643
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CarPlay and affordability. I was totally smitten last year with the R1S during a test drive. I'm not a car person but felt that spark people must feel when they obsess over their vehicles. But it wasn't pushing-six-figures smitten, which is where you're at when you get a new one with customizations.

>afforadbility This 1000%. Electric cars are supposed to be simple. Give me something in a shape of a Civic, with the engine replaced with a motor and a battery good for 150 miles, and sell it for $10-12k new. Don't even need an entertainment cluster, give me a place to put a tablet or a phone and just have a bluetooth speaker. Instead, we are getting these boutique, expensive vehicles packed full of tech, but in the…

This.

Re: Rivian Unveils Custom Silicon, R2 Lidar Roadmap, and Universal Hands Free

#644

Can anyone explain why RIVN is down 8% after this announcement? Were investors expecting hands free handjobs or something?

I hold some RIVN and I'm wondering why they're spending resources on custom silicon instead of using something off-the-shelf. What is their advantage here? Can they hire the right people? Can they ship enough units to pay for it? Those are my bearish questions. On the bullish side, the VW deal shows that they're willing and able to license part of their platform, so possibly have a big chance to recoup costs and mayb…

Frankly, the "need" for custom silicon seems self-imposed, with the idea of appearing to be a technology company first rather than a car / vehicle company.

Cruise automation was also for years working on custom silicon, I knew people there. Many people working on the custom devices didn't really believe in the mission statement either, but they were paid well, and got to do fun work, so they took the job.

What makes Rivian, or Tesla better at making the "normal" car pieces compared to Toyota, or Honda? The answer is they're really not better at those things and quite worse typically ; bad fit and finish, rattles, corroding suspension components, difficult to buy replacement parts, etc.

If these companies were truly about making electric cars available to all, a partnership with a car company that knows how to do the "regular car stuff" makes a LOT more sense.

Instead you have these companies that might be innovative in the drive train, electronics, batteries, and co-packaging who have to learn all the "hard" stuff normal car companies have been doing for a 100-years.

Now, instead of moving into a partnership with a regular car company, they're becoming hardware/software organizations making custom silicon with custom software.

Even doing custom silicon and the associated software takes YEARS of expertise to do it and not have a 1000 warts, not withtsanding going into a MOVING VEHICLE where the risks of making mistakes is life and limb.

So, my conclusion is this is more fancy smoke and mirrors to impress investors and the general public, but not in the best interest of end-users (people who buy vehicles to use as transportation).

Re: Rivian Unveils Custom Silicon, R2 Lidar Roadmap, and Universal Hands Free

#645
post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "sensing depth" and "object detection" are the same things in this debate though

It's just "sensing depth" the same way cameras provide just "pixels". A fused cameras+radars+lidar input provides more robust coverage in a variety of conditions.

You know it would be even more robust under even more conditions? Putting 80 cameras and 20 LIDAR sensors on the car. Also a dozen infrared heat sensors, a spectrophotometer, and a Doppler radar. More is surely always better. Waymo should do that.

Re: Rivian Unveils Custom Silicon, R2 Lidar Roadmap, and Universal Hands Free

#646
post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just "sensing depth" the same way cameras provide just "pixels". A fused cameras+radars+lidar input provides more robust coverage in a variety of conditions.

You know it would be even more robust under even more conditions? Putting 80 cameras and 20 LIDAR sensors on the car. Also a dozen infrared heat sensors, a spectrophotometer, and a Doppler radar. More is surely always better. Waymo should do that.

Maybe Tesla should reduce their camera count from 8 to 2 and put them on a swivel like human eyes. Less is surely always better.

I can also make “clever” arguments that are useless.

Re: Rivian Unveils Custom Silicon, R2 Lidar Roadmap, and Universal Hands Free

#647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah that was actually my main concern. I don’t think a lack of CarPlay would be a dealbreaker for me if they have inbuilt Google Maps.

I prefer Google Maps. Apple Maps lead me astray too often and though they are better than they used to be they still give weird directions (such as using more obscure state route names for roads rather than the dominant Interstate Higway name). CarPlay would be a complete non-issue for me, its absence would even be a positive. I just use my phone anyway; integrating it with the car is just added hassle and one less t…

> they still give weird directions (such as using more obscure state route names for roads rather than the dominant Interstate Higway name).

In my experience, Apple Maps gives the names from the signs. It could be that the signs in your area are using those obscure state route names?

Re: Rivian Unveils Custom Silicon, R2 Lidar Roadmap, and Universal Hands Free

#648
post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admittedly light switch automation is nice but not that useful. Wireless switches are probably cheaper than running cables tho. I’ve recently posted items about my smart home. Point of DIY it doesn’t need to suck, cost a lot or hold you captive. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45999721

A lot of walls were open after a kitchen fire. Electrician was redoing a lot of knob and tube and other older wiring. I had previously had a limited amount of DIY wireless switching (originally X10 but then a couple of voice-controlled switches) but basically everything was being redone anyway. And I basically just now have some dimmers and a simple programmable thermostat I haven't even programmed. The parent point…

As for threshold probably all the safety stuff: power metering, water leak sensors, smoke alarm monitoring. Then all the energy related stuff - heating, hot water controls - if you are on TOU pays itself in months. Then it's smart entry - probably one thing that you can actually experience and it's the best.

Re: Rivian Unveils Custom Silicon, R2 Lidar Roadmap, and Universal Hands Free

#649
post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know it would be even more robust under even more conditions? Putting 80 cameras and 20 LIDAR sensors on the car. Also a dozen infrared heat sensors, a spectrophotometer, and a Doppler radar. More is surely always better. Waymo should do that.

Maybe Tesla should reduce their camera count from 8 to 2 and put them on a swivel like human eyes. Less is surely always better. I can also make “clever” arguments that are useless.

Remarkable. You managed to both misunderstand my point and, in drafting your witty riposte, accidentally understand it and adopt it as your own. More isn't objectively better, less isn't objectively better. There's only different strategies and actual real world outcomes.

Re: Rivian Unveils Custom Silicon, R2 Lidar Roadmap, and Universal Hands Free

#650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Auto insurers don't face a "catastrophic liability" bankrupting scenario like home insurers might in the case of a natural disaster or fire.

A bad hail storm comes close. Hail damage can total a car.

This is true, we had a bad hail storm come through in 2010 that dimpled an appreciable fraction of the cars in the city like golf balls. Most were deemed repairable write-offs. Went right over a couple of luxury car yards. A bunch of people at my work moved our cars undercover 10 minutes before it hit, and felt kind of silly… for 10 minutes, until it hit.

Car insurance premiums jumped by quite a lot that day, as far as I can tell permanently.

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