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ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

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Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#641

Post by ux266478 »

cco wrote: post #635
ux266478 wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a good introductory text on the deep nature of the divide in America is We Have the War Upon Us by William J. Cooper. It's mostly a book about the civil war, but it introduces some post-revolution pre-war history and names. That gives you more resources to dig up. You should read as much as you can and form your own opinions on that.

I'm relatively well versed in "the divide" so to speak. But I'm trying to understand what you mean by the Plymouth and Jamestown split as it relates to our modern country today. It seems like both the spirit of Plymouth and Jamestown are inside the big tent of the Republican party today. But that doesn't sound like what you intended it to mean. Or maybe it is? That's the part I'm curious about; who is Plymouth and wh…

Plymouth is harder to identify. It's not just the Puritans at Plymouth, nor exclusively New England. It's merely everything that came with the second colonization. The Dutch are a foundational part of Yankeedom. In fact, New York should probably be considered more foundational than Plymouth. You would be right to identify Jamestown with the modern GOP. Traditionally it was represented by the Democratic party, but I assume you're familiar with that.

I should note these geists extend far beyond legitimate political guise.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#642

Post by ang_cire »

ycombigators wrote: post #623
ang_cire wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mechanisms that attack one attack the other as well. The apparatuses which exist to de-anonymize communication also remove the ability to definitively keep the content of the communication private, and no government (UK or EU or US, etc) that has proposed a ChatControl-like scheme has ever used a method that did not allow them to do both. If a porn site checks my ID against a gov database, the gov now knows I wen…

Anonymity is eroding our democracies far faster than our privacy.

Neither are eroding our democracy. They are both states of information, not actors.

What you mean is, bad actors are eroding our democracy using anonymity to avoid negative repercussions, but Fox News, OANN, Newsmax hosts, etc, with their names and faces attached to their message, have hurt democracy far worse and more efficiently than internet trolls, and with even less pushback.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#643

Post by ang_cire »

anonym29 wrote: post #506
ang_cire wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mechanisms that attack one attack the other as well. The apparatuses which exist to de-anonymize communication also remove the ability to definitively keep the content of the communication private, and no government (UK or EU or US, etc) that has proposed a ChatControl-like scheme has ever used a method that did not allow them to do both. If a porn site checks my ID against a gov database, the gov now knows I wen…

I'm completely against all infringements of privacy, but, >If a porn site checks my ID against a gov database, the gov now knows I went to that porn site. That is a loss of both anonymity and privacy. This is not necessarily true. It is possible to design systems much more like CRL than OCSP, including identity or even just age verification systems. Consider the FedGov sharing a list of public keys tied to identities…

I have proposed a similar PKI-based system myself before, but no government is proposing this because the point is not to protect children, it's to de-anonymize and surveil.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#644

Post by 1dontnkow_ »

palata wrote: post #628
zenlot wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few decades ago implies 1990s or early 2000s. In 1990 he was 7 years old. In early 2000 - 17 years old.

a few a small number of units or individuals

A few is at least 3 because then you'd use "a couple". So its 3 decades or more, which is 30 years at least.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#645

Post by 1dontnkow_ »

kypro wrote: post #22
contravariant wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The accepted solution is to have a constitution that says otherwise. Which is a bit complicated here, as the EU has no real constitution and this 'law' (really a regulation) is a blatant violation of the constitutions of countries that did choose to establish secrecy of correspondence.

I've commented this elsewhere, but rights in the US are generally much more absolute than here in Europe. For example, in the EU you technically have the right to freedom of expression, but you can also be arrested if you say something that could offend someone. Similarly rights to privacy are often ignored whenever a justification can be made that it's appropriate to do so. I don't know about elsewhere in the world,…

"something that could offend someone" thats too simplified.

You can freely express your opinions regarding any political party or head of state and so, but not directly and specifically offend them. You can say "their performance this year wasn't good due to that or this". But cant say "They should eat shit!" or "deserve to be shot" which kinda is also OK because the former doesn't contribute to anything and the latter we all agree is highly immoral or inhumane.

PS: I'm talking from the perspective of Germany, not entirely sure about other countries.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#646

Post by 1dontnkow_ »

platevoltage wrote: post #143
hellojesus wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How on earth are hate speech laws a good thing? Or did I miss a /s?

For example, the US government is trying to label any posthumous criticism of Charlie Kirk "Hate Speech". You can see how dangerous this could be when the hate-mongers get to decide what is considered hate speech.

That has nothing to do with "hate speech" and is just sold to Americans like that. Critisism and hate speech are entirely diffferent things and US's adminsitration is just.. idk insane lately? In EU, specifically Germany, its very different. You can critique publicly all day every day all politicians, dead or alive, as much as you want to and nobody is allowed to even give you a mean stare. But you can't spread hate or directly specifically offend someone, but surely comment on their performance during their mandate.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#647

Post by LocalH »

alkonaut wrote: post #305
blindriver wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing to do with csam and arguing that point is on purpose, to distract people and the politicians can say “xp84 supports child pornography!” It has everything to do with censorship and complete control over people’s ability to communicate. Politicians hate free speech and they want to control their citizens completely including their thoughts. This is true evil.

But politicians are - in general - neither evil, nor do they have any real incentive to ”control citizens’ thoughts”. It doesn’t make sense. They can be gullible. Non-Technical. Owned by lobbyists. Under pressure to deliver on the apparent problem of the day (csam, terror, whatever). But I don’t think there is a general crusade against privacy. That’s why I think it’s so infuriating: I’m sure it’s not even deliberate…

>But politicians are - in general - neither evil, nor do they have any real incentive to ”control citizens’ thoughts”.

Neither of these statements is as axiomatic as you think they are

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#648

Post by selinkocalar »

This is going to break so many things. End-to-end encryption either works or it doesn't. There's no middle ground where you can scan messages but keep them 'private.'

Compliance overhead alone will kill a bunch of smaller messaging apps that can't afford all the regulatory stuff.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#649

Post by ajam1507 »

nikkwong wrote: post #446
Aloisius wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They feel incredibly safe and don't have to worry about being victims of crimes, having their packages stolen, walking around late at night alone, etc. Em. I think feeling incredibly safe has more to do with the media telling people that no crime exists and all criminals are caught, rather than a reality of zero crime. There is evidence that crime started being systematically under-recorded in China since they star…

Sorta yes and sorta no? You're factually correct; but practically missing the point a little bit. At my relative's place, which has many tall buildings around a hub, package delivery people leave all of the resident's packages on a very exposed and busy sidewalk. People walk by these packages all day and none of them are ever stolen. Could you imagine an Amazon delivery driver just leaving all of the packages for the…

There are plenty of examples of this kind of thing in many places that don't have a surveillance state. Japan in large part is like this. It doesn't take a surveillance state to create an expectation of security.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#650

Post by danielscrubs »

tpm wrote: post #632
danielscrubs wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will, in time. You basically cut the hierarchy in half. A citizen can now meet their politician in the supermarket. The other parts necessary is transparency and democracy but those are on other orthogonal axis.

It won't, you haven't cut any hierarchy, that's not how the EU works (but the UK let themselves get disinformed about that for decades by certain Mr. Johnson and others). A citizen can meet the politician in the supermarket in the same way as before and it does not matter, because the politician lied to him, the citizen believed him and voted for the Brexit and nothing got better. Now the citizen does not believe in…

They currently have the most unpopular prime minister in history with 64% disapproval rating.

Give it time. As long as democracy/liberties are not taken away they will heal.

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