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Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

theguardian.com

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Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#641

Post by dotancohen »

hashim wrote: post #599
SilverElfin wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t it the inverse? Gazans voted for Hamas, and still support them per polls. Hamas’s charter is to destroy Israel in particular but also to subordinate women, subordinate all other religions, undermine Western powers, etc. Their goals and ideology are explicitly in conflict with liberal orders that support things like women’s rights, gay rights, free speech, freedom of religion, and so on.

Do you really think Hamas has killed more Israelis than Israel has killed Palestinians? Do you even know why Hamas exists? Do you have any idea how many years passed between the occupation in 1948 and massacres like the Nakba and Deir Yassin before Hamas was established? Also, no matter how much you want it to, your racism against brown people and fetishisation of "Judeo-Christian civilisation" doesn't justify killin…

That's funny. In mid-October 2023 the narrative was "It doesn't matter who killed more" and now that so many Palestinians are dying - both by Israeli bombs and by Hamas rockets (1/3 to 1/5 fall back into the densely-populated Gaza strip) - the narrative is "Hamas has killed less Israelis than Israel has killed Palestinians".

The pro-Palestinian narrative adapts and changes as per the tides of war and the media. The Israeli narrative has remained consistent, even when it hurts.

Furthermore, your ideas about the colour of people's skin is an artifact of you dragging American racial issues into a place where they don't belong. The varied skin colours here favour neither side as darker or lighter.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#643

Post by hashim »

underdeserver wrote: post #376
moogly wrote: post #45

No one left to surveil, I guess.

Estimates of deaths are around 60,000, of a 2 million strong population.

If you think that figure is remotely accurate despite the fact Israel has decimated all hospitals, leveled entire areas, wiped out entire families and is starving those that are still alive to do the counting, you're being naive, and that's a generous interpretation. Once Israel finally allow the UN in, that figure is going up by a factor of at least 2 or 3. The true cost of most genocides are only counted years after it's over, when it's too late.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#644

Post by WD-42 »

hashim wrote: post #500
WD-42 wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you used a modern Microsoft OS? They are somehow worse than they were in the 90s and 00s. I don’t remember having to agree to sell my personal information in the 90s or having advertising baked into the start menu in windows xp.

I agree that in-OS advertising for a paid product is dumb, but a) I thankfully still use Windows 10 which doesn't have those, and b) those are ultimately UX concerns, not ethical. And no, Microsoft doesn't sell your data no matter how many in tech subscribe to that conspiracy theory.

Last time I installed windows 11 in a VM I had to agree to at least 3, possibly more, un-skippable Eulas that required me to agree to share my personal information. Maybe they aren’t selling it outside of MS, but MS is such a giant company if they are using it for ads I don’t see the distinction.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#645

Post by pron »

worik wrote: post #577
pron wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are quite a few inaccuracies here. Palestine is not in Arabia but in the Levant, which was conquered by Arabs from the Byzantine Empire in the 7th c. as part of the Arab-Byzantine wars, and came under the Rashidun Caliphate, the first incarnation of the Arab Empire (which also conquered parts of Europe, BTW, not to mention that people in Morocco or Tunisia speak Arabic for pretty much the same reason people in…

[flagged]

Even political Zionism is minimally defined as supporting "a home for Jews in Palestine"[1] Not only does it not require any ethnic exclusivity nor even for a national identity, it doesn't even require an independent state in the contemporary sense. Some of those who identify as Zionist take it to mean only that Jews should be able to live with some form of self-determination in Palestine, and so when they hear "anti Zionist" they take it to mean supporting the expulsion of Jews, which, of course is not what many of those who identify as anti-Zionist want. When some anti-Zionist hear the term Zionist, they take it to mean support of an exclusive ethno-national Jewish state, which, of course, is not what many of those who identify as Zionist want. The term could mean something very different to different people, to the point that the same political position can be called Zionist by some and anti-Zionist by others, which makes the term mostly useless.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_Zionism#Political_Zio...

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#646

Post by LightBug1 »

dotancohen wrote: post #327
LightBug1 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting away from the debate around your details (most of which didn't happen) ... A singular terrorist event is not the same as an multi-decade occupation, on-going theft of land, discrimination, annexation plans, and - not least - a 2 year long genocide of tens of thousands of civilians. So, no, that isn't what Hamas did.

> most of which didn't happen Even the BBC, a generally anti-Israel organization, has reported on it: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

That's a Dec-23 article and doesn't take account of later independent investigations.

Regardless. I accept it's reasonable that sexualised violence took place. I accept the what happened on 7th Oct was a horrible terrorist act.

But, and apologies if this hurts, none of that, absolutely none of that, justifies what has taken place since.

There is no place in this world for genocide. Particularly from a country that preaches "never again".

Nothing you can say will change my opinion on that.

Israel has really fucked up. It destroyed Gaza, yes. But in so doing destroyed it's reputation and standing for at least a generation.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#647

Post by dotancohen »

fahhem wrote: post #587
dotancohen wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We all know that's a lie. Israel has murdered the negotiators most interested in giving the hostages back. Qatar was the most recent miss, but they got Haniyeh in Iran and he was a known moderate (in the Overton window of Hamas)

[flagged]

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#648

Post by verteu »

dmix wrote: post #344
dark_mode wrote: post #229

> The decision brings to an abrupt end a three-year period in which the spy agency operated its surveillance programme using Microsoft’s technology. Are we supposed to believe Microsoft was unaware of the contents but decided to terminate coincidentally when reports of what they're doing came out?

Are you asking whether Microsoft engineers routinely poke around their customer’s private clouds (including ones used by foreign intelligence agencies) to make sure everything is kosher?

"Routinely"? No.

When the customer is indicted by the Hague for crimes against humanity? Yes, it's difficult to imagine a more clear-cut case of professional ethics.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#649

Post by LightBug1 »

skinkestek wrote: post #358
LightBug1 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting away from the debate around your details (most of which didn't happen) ... A singular terrorist event is not the same as an multi-decade occupation, on-going theft of land, discrimination, annexation plans, and - not least - a 2 year long genocide of tens of thousands of civilians. So, no, that isn't what Hamas did.

[flagged]

I accept it's reasonable that sexualised violence took place. I accept the what happened on 7th Oct was a horrible terrorist act.

But, and apologies if this hurts, none of that, absolutely none of that, justifies what has taken place since.

There is no place in this world for genocide. Particularly from a country that preaches "never again".

Nothing you can say will change my opinion on that.

Israel has really fucked up. It destroyed Gaza, yes. But in so doing destroyed it's reputation and standing for at least a generation.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#650

Post by skinkestek »

hashim wrote: post #366
skinkestek wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in nazi Germany a number of people tried to help the Jews. On Gaza: not a single that I am aware of have tried to help the hostages, not even the toddlers, despite promised financial rewards.

Why would anyone in Palestine, including Gaza, care about helping the people who have occupied them since 1948, with the help of the Brits and funding of the US?

Because Gaza hadn't been occupied since 2005/2006 and kidnapping toddlers is universally seen as an evil thing to do.
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