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Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

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Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#641

Post by johnisgood »

kelnos wrote: post #372
lazide wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cite? Russia and Iran seem to not be giving too much of a shit. NK became a nuclear power under sanctions.

Would Russia perhaps have already conquered Ukraine without sanctions? Would Iran have destroyed Israel by now without sanctions? Would NK have become a nuclear power much earlier, and have a huge stockpile of nuclear weapons today, were it not for sanctions? I don't know the answers to those questions, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was "yes".

> Iran is not the only example in which sanctions have resulted in unintended consequences. Since 1970, unilateral sanctions imposed by the U.S. have achieved foreign policy goals in just about 13% of cases, according to one study. A recent Congressional Research report evaluating U.S. sanctions in Venezuela found that sanctions “exacerbated an ongoing economic and humanitarian crisis caused by government mismanagement and corruption that has promoted 7.7 million Venezuelans to flee.” U.S. sanctions also exacerbated humanitarian crises in North Korea, reported UNICEF, putting 60,000 vulnerable children at risk of starvation due to limited humanitarian aid.

https://washingtondc.jhu.edu/news/do-sanctions-actually-work...

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#642

Post by breppp »

chabska wrote: post #221
adastra22 wrote: post #20

OP, some context from the other side might be helpful. Yes, there are fines for American companies if they do business with Iranians. That's how sanctions work as I'm sure you're aware. But the story doesn't stop there. If an American finds out they are transacting with a sanctioned individual, or citizens of a sanctioned country like Iran or North Korea, the stakes go up: $1M USD fine and up to 20 years in federal p…

> Nobody should be expected to take that risk I've seen this sentiment so many times from westerners. You all say this, and yet at the same time you levy economic sanctions on countries like Iran, Cuba, and North Korea, with the justification that by making their citizens lives horrific, you encourage them to rise against their government. Their authoritarian militaristic government that doesn't care for human rights…

So without sanctions or a military strike, how will a nuclear program will evaporate? spontaneously? Or do you think that nuclear blackmail like the NK case is something that should be accepted

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#643

Post by phendrenad2 »

slg wrote: post #64

>Iranian IPs are blocked here, due to your decision to arm Russia with drones so that they can indiscriminately massacre civilians. The "your decision" in that response is really off-putting. I know the law is what it is with sanctions like this. However, it is a failing of basic human empathy to blame other common citizens of a country for the actions of their government while we almost certainly do not endorse all…

This, 1000%. I think there's a certain kind of thinking that low-IQ people fall into, which is blaming civilians for the actions of their government, often with the coping "they should just overthrow their government" (because it's that easy!)

Sadly, in our world where everyone has a voice, you're going to get a lot of this. There's no avoiding the stupids.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#644

Post by miningape »

figmert wrote: post #593
1234letshaveatw wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Every international body had checked, and confirmed that Iran had no intention of building nuclear weapons. Even to this day. Even after what Israel and US did. Netanyahu has been saying Iran in minutes away from building nuclear weapons since early 2010s. Never mind those facts. Let's say they are building weapons. What gives the US the right to build enough nuclear weapons that they could destroy the world multiple…

[flagged]

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#646

Post by breppp »

johnisgood wrote: post #636
figmert wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every international body had checked, and confirmed that Iran had no intention of building nuclear weapons. Even to this day. Even after what Israel and US did. Netanyahu has been saying Iran in minutes away from building nuclear weapons since early 2010s. Never mind those facts. Let's say they are building weapons. What gives the US the right to build enough nuclear weapons that they could destroy the world multiple…

... and on top remember Iraq's alleged "weapons of massive destruction (WMD)"?

You are of course aware that Iraq used chemical weapons against Iran and the Kurds killing thousands of people

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#647

Post by johnisgood »

kelnos wrote: post #373
Xelbair wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, their effect is diminished. After speaking with Russians living in there, day to day life hasn't been affected that much, after initial shock. Trying to use sanctions against another major power isn't guaranteed to work as they can take the hit and pivot to internal industry(which happened), or trading with other major powers that do not sanction them(China). Or some countries get around sanctions - like bu…

> After speaking with Russians living in there, day to day life hasn't been affected that much, after initial shock. That sounds like a positive, though: if Russia's advance into Ukraine has been slowed by sanctions, but everyday Russians aren't affected too much, I'd consider that a huge win. We shouldn't be punishing regular people for the actions of a their dictatorship government that they can't control.

Problem is that ever since the sanctions from EU, our prices of EVERYTHING has increased by 3-6x. We are in an economic crisis, thanks to EU's sanctions.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#648

Post by phendrenad2 »

toolis wrote: post #213
47282847 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why do you feel capable to judge if somebody is OK with what their government is doing or not? It’s really that simple: you cannot, unless they explicitly state it.

[flagged]

What do you mean by "you as a collective"? Did you just shift the goalpost? Do you think people are part of a hivemind? I thought we were talking about individuals, now you want to talk about "a collective"? You clearly aren't thinking about this rationally. A bit of thinking things through logically would really help here. I suggest spending a few hours whiteboarding your argument, because as it stands 0% of people are going to agree with you.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#649

Post by zdragnar »

lelanthran wrote: post #442
ivell wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The leadership of countries under sanctions rarely change their behavior due to sanctions. However the effect on the population of the countries is that they turn against the countries applying the sanctions. It becomes easier for the leaders to sell the sanctions to their populace as the enemy action. If the West is expecting any revolution due to sanctions, I have not seen it. However, sanctions do have a symbolic…

> The leadership of countries under sanctions rarely change their behavior due to sanctions. However the effect on the population of the countries is that they turn against the countries applying the sanctions. It becomes easier for the leaders to sell the sanctions to their populace as the enemy action. Counterpoint: South Africa. > If the West is expecting any revolution due to sanctions, I have not seen it. You ha…

Isn't South Africa the exception? There have been sanctions on many more countries who have not changed at all, or even doubled down on bad behavior as a result.

I can certainly understand, as a matter of foreign policy, not wanting our companies to be propping up or supplying such regimes, but I don't really get how anyone can think that sanctions are effective at promoting change.

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