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Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

greeneuropeanjournal.eu

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Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#641

Post by CPLX »

dfee wrote: post #582
bee_rider wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit weird they decided to include some barbs about how their environment was NOT like some city, even when trying to be positive.

Me? I was just providing an alternate perspective that life beyond the boroughs is not just strip malls. I've spent a bunch of time in Manhattan. Cumulatively, many months of my life. It's a fun experience, but I'm not interested in raising my kids there.

> just providing an alternate perspective that life beyond the boroughs is not just strip malls.

It kind of is. Where'd you buy your charcoal? Did it have a parking lot out front and two stores on either side of it sharing the same overall building?

Of course there are exceptions, maybe you're one of them. But they are so small numerically as to be irrelevant. The vast majority of the country is living nearly all their personal life in tract housing and their commercial and social life in a strip mall. I've travelled a lot, just calling it like I see it.

Regardless of all that though, if you like it then great for you!

My comment above was just noting that city living is fine. I keep seeing in the media that NYC is scary or dangerous or something and that's fucking ridiculous, it's not.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#642

Post by Earw0rm »

froddd wrote: post #625
Saline9515 wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dangerous because a city provides many ways for a cyclist to fall or hit something or someone. In France, data shows that 2/3 of cyclists' "serious accidents" don't involve another road user. https://www.cerema.fr/system/files/documents/2024/05/3._2024...

The data you present does not say that: > 35% des cyclistes tués, 63% des cyclistes blessés gravement le sont dans un accident sans autre véhicule impliqué. 35% of cyclist deaths, and 63% of cyclist seriously injured occur in an accident with no other party involved. Another graph in that report shows that a vast majority of cyclist deaths occur while cycling for leisure. I would hazard that most cycling in cities is…

Yes, this will be the road racer guys (it is mostly guys) screwing up while descending an Alp or Pyrenee. Split-second safety margins and if you get it wrong on a 60kph descent - or someone else gets it wrong, or you suffer a mechanical failure - you're likely dead.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#644

Post by SilverElfin »

vkou wrote: post #567
felineflock wrote: post #563

Urban is usually associated with panhandling, trash, public urination and crime. > "Galicia is mainly and historically ruled by the right-wing Popular Party"... (Galician Nationalist Bloc) So they likely have much stricter standards of what constitutes acceptable urban behavior... ... than, say, New York, where very recently a person with 30-year criminal history has allegedly killed a couple... ... or in Charlotte,…

Or Memphis, which is smack dab in the middle of a permanently Republican supermajority state, yet has three times the murder rate and twice the robbery rate of NYC. Is there a charitable explanation for why people cherrypick a single homicide in a metro of 8 million people and somehow act like it's proof for the downfall of liberal democracy? Especially when by most relevant metrics, illiberal democracy performs dram…

Because you can gauge how you feel when you walk through the cities and realize something is off with this narrative. I suspect a lot of crimes aren’t tracked or classified properly in the data we see from cities in blue states, to support their policies. Or that victims are exhausted by the lack of prosecution and sentencing, and stop reporting things.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#645

Post by AlecSchueler »

Saline9515 wrote: post #611
jjevanoorschot wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you’re describing is perfectly possible without a car. I live in Amsterdam and have a young family. We own an electric cargo bike that we use for groceries and to cart around our daughter. You can use it with an infant car seat and for larger kids. When we need a car we use a car sharing app. There are around 10 cars within walking distance of our flat. Many people in cities _want_ a car but don’t need one.

Cargo bikes are dangerous for children, there is little protection in case of an accident (not necessarily with a car, a bollard is enough) and well once you have one child in, you can't really have groceries. You can't use it when it's freezing. What you describe is typical of a one-child family in Netherland, but doesn't fit the reality of most of European cities. Also Netherland has a rather high amount of cars pe…

> Also Netherland has a rather high amount of cars per head, so not everyone thinks like you ;-)

You can bet all those car users also ride bikes though. It's just very common in the NL to live in one city and work in another, things like that. I know people who have cars they use to go to work and back and then take all other journies via foot, bike or public transport.

In short it's not an either/or thing.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#646

Post by abap_rocky »

everdrive wrote: post #537
deltarholamda wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Where it exists you can see that there is tremendous demand for it. Everybody loves public transit until they get panhandled for the jillionth time, or they witness (or experience) violence, or some other anti-social behavior sours the whole thing. I spent some time in NYC during the Giuliani years, after the city did a lot of work cleaning it all up: stopping turnstile jumpers, removing graffiti, more police, etc.…

>The worst argument anybody can make is "but that's just life in the big city!" A cousin was visiting us in our nice suburb. We had a slow, not-busy road we walked on when we lived there, and we'd wave to anyone; neighbors, vehicles, etc. Our cousin was sort of uncomfortable, and asked "do you know all these people?" I explained that we knew some of them but were just being polite and friendly. She explained that tha…

Sure, when you compare a "nice suburb" to a "rough area" of the city you'll come to such conclusions. But if the city you lived in is anything like mine, that disorder you experienced is likely highly localized to those "rough areas". Given this, it might be more helpful to compare a "nice suburb" to a "nice area" in a city.

I'm glad you chose the experience of taking a walk as your original example because it was instrumental in helping me to decide that I wanted to raise my family in the city.

COVID offered an opportunity for my young family to spend a month in the suburbs and the thing that sticks with me now after all these years later is how much I hated taking our then 1 year-old for a walk as compared to the city. In the suburbs we walked past the same houses on the same sidewalk-lacking streets barely seeing anyone else. If we wanted anything beyond that it required loading our toddler into the car.

Compare this to a nice area of the city where the density allows for a vast array of possible destinations and plenty of folks to smile or wave at on the way. Walks these days could be to the local park on a Saturday morning for the farmers market, or to the local Italian Ice spot because the weather hasn't gotten too cold yet. While it's still possible to have those experiences in the suburbs, it's hard to be as spontaneous when you've got to consider things like car seats and parking.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#647

Post by andy12_ »

This is nice and all for tourists and people that live in the city center. But then if you don't live in the actual city and need to drive for half an hour to reach the city, spend half an hour searching for parking, then take a half an hour bus, then it's not so funny.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#648

Post by Earw0rm »

Saline9515 wrote: post #538
rcpt wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Childless couples aren't competing for 4 bedroom apartments. The problem is that cities forbid construction of those.

Everyone is competing for space. I don't see how cities prevent building larger apartments. European cities are mostly built out anyway, and the tendency is rather more to split large apartments to cater to the childless crowd.

Architectural preservation. Which may not be all a negative thing, but central Paris is low-rise compared to Manhattan, Berlin or even central London.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#649

Post by vkou »

SilverElfin wrote: post #644
vkou wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or Memphis, which is smack dab in the middle of a permanently Republican supermajority state, yet has three times the murder rate and twice the robbery rate of NYC. Is there a charitable explanation for why people cherrypick a single homicide in a metro of 8 million people and somehow act like it's proof for the downfall of liberal democracy? Especially when by most relevant metrics, illiberal democracy performs dram…

Because you can gauge how you feel when you walk through the cities and realize something is off with this narrative. I suspect a lot of crimes aren’t tracked or classified properly in the data we see from cities in blue states, to support their policies. Or that victims are exhausted by the lack of prosecution and sentencing, and stop reporting things.

> I suspect a lot of crimes aren’t tracked or classified properly

People don't under-report or misclassify homicides.

> when you walk through the cities and realize something is off with this narrative.

I happen to live in one of those war-torn anarchist cities that was claimed by Fox and friends to be an open charnel pit back in 2020, and I assure you, there is something off with a narrative.

Specifically, the narrative that my city is a lawless hellscape.

That narrative (along with the sudden and immediate need for the military to be illegally deployed in it) is back, by the way.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#650

Post by aynyc »

To me, it's more than just reduce traffic, but a sign that government is investing in its people. In order for a traffic free/minimal zone to thrive, you need policies that promote affordable housing, policing policy that reduces crime without being "brutal". The population also must accept certain civil responsibilities as trust and respect must go both ways.
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