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Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

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Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#641

Top employees, ones that can easily get jobs elsewhere, are just going to leave and find ones without RTO. Employees that don't feel confident in their abilities to perform in the job market are going to show up in the office to keep their job.

Or maybe top employees see their remote coworkers slacking off and want everyone in the office.

/unpopular opinion

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#642

Threads like these are always one sided with people against RTO. What I would really like to see is arguments from the other side. Can someone steelman RTO. Preferably with evidence, anecdotal or otherwise.

Under RTO new grads enjoy less competition because they’re willing to relocate

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For highly-specialized engineers and researchers, there’s often only a tiny handful of companies they could work for that offer jobs in their specialties. For example, if you’re a compilers expert, there are only so many companies that hire compiler developers, whether it’s working on a commercial compiler like Microsoft Visual Studio or contributing to an open-source project such as LLVM (Apple is a major contributo…

But only a small percent of people work in those highly specialized jobs.

This is true, but they have highest impact. As a result, Silicon Valley exists.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is always an answer to unionizing and other demands: hiring freeze plus offshoring overseas. Eventually even unionized people will be replaced with offshore buddies.

Offshoring always ends in disaster, companies have tried this time and time again but the end result is an awful product that requires more money to fix than they needed to make it in the first place. And that also doesn't solve the problem of dealing with institutional knowledge loss if you decide to aggressively cull employees trying to unionize. In either scenario the solution is for union workers to become even m…

>>> Offshoring always ends in disaster,

Is it? If it is a disaster , why there are millions of IT folks employed in offshoring locations?

Only the cheapest offshoring ends in disaster. Cheap contractors from TCS will fail you. Open your own dev center, hire few thousands engineer there - a road to success. And yes, no one will actively complain about RTO policies there.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#645

Threads like these are always one sided with people against RTO. What I would really like to see is arguments from the other side. Can someone steelman RTO. Preferably with evidence, anecdotal or otherwise.

I work a 2 in 3 out style schedule. During the 3 days I wfh, I get the most work done. I can focus and organize my day around executing a plan. During the 2 days I'm in the office, I can get answers from people much quicker. Some people (new hires in particular) don't know how to describe their problem, or they're just really bad at it. My solution to endless teams convos is to just say "I'll head over to your desk"…

I find the progress is much faster at the office because me and my coworkers can more easily consult with each other on both major and minor stuff. On chat wfh they might answer immediately or 4 hrs from now. so, I can’t get in a semi flow because of long interruptions waiting for answers. also chat is slow and annoying.

I know someone is going to chime in a claim those conversations break flow. That might be true for some particular deep problems but I’ve never seen it affect any team I’ve been on and I have 40 years of work experience. Not saying my experience fits everyone else but I’ve seen no real evidence of it being an actual problem.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad I live in the midwest. Every story I hear about working in the bay area makes me wonder why anyone would.

For highly-specialized engineers and researchers, there’s often only a tiny handful of companies they could work for that offer jobs in their specialties. For example, if you’re a compilers expert, there are only so many companies that hire compiler developers, whether it’s working on a commercial compiler like Microsoft Visual Studio or contributing to an open-source project such as LLVM (Apple is a major contributo…

I think the same can be argued for global investment banks. All of their important offices are in six cities globally: New York (Manhattan), London, Tokyo, Hongkong, Singapore, and Sydney. All other locations pale in comparison. Probably 1% of headcount (sales, trading, i-bankers) is responsible for 99% of revenues. There is a reason why investment banks are all crowded into very tall buildings in the same six cities: They are trying to access those "1% people". I see the same for tech clusters around the world. (For tech, I guess that less than 5% of staff generate most of your important intellectual property.) There is a reason why Oracle stays in Silicon Valley instead of moving to Montana or Oklahoma were real estate and salaries would be much cheaper!

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 is real, this is what was behind Amazon’s RTO mandates. Its designed to ensure that people decide to quit.

From a source closely involved with this- Amazon tracks many productivity metrics of employees and was seeing very significant differences between in-person and remote people, which drove the decision. Source left since so I don’t know how much productivity has improved. Advice to new grads: get into the office 5 days a week for at least a few years.

Why is it that these "sources" always remain anonymous and outside the possibility of an external review?

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a wonder that people still work for a living when all you have to do is buy a share of SPY, suddenly elevating you to same level as your boss.

Well, how else are you going to buy the share? (I don't think further engaging on this would be meaningful, as the reactions are all coming from a place of prejudice to state of the world.)

The state of the world is a human product. It’s something we create. We can choose to resign ourselves to it and rationalize it, or try to change it through conscious collective action. Either way we are participating in creating the world we see around us.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#649

Threads like these are always one sided with people against RTO. What I would really like to see is arguments from the other side. Can someone steelman RTO. Preferably with evidence, anecdotal or otherwise.

With WFH the following things become very difficult and/or ineffective:

1. Onboarding and growing junior employees.

2. Managing/coordinating people

3. Doing/coming up with something innovative

4. Making sure an employee is not working another job in parallel

With RTO, companies try go get back the ability to do these things, at the expense of employees’ commute time

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> where it comes from It's a power play. To show regular folks their place. Big corpo is a modern feodal state, where CEO is an emperor, c-suites are kings, managers are barons, IC are peasants and external contractors are slaves(but leased from other owner). It's not only RTO, it's also about timetable and dress code. Yes, I had a beef with IT manager about dress code in the development office of a bank. Just becau…

> Big corpo is a modern feodal state, where CEO is an emperor, c-suites are kings, managers are barons Why do people forget about board members and shareholders? There's a lot of overlap among the rich. I doubt Satya "wants" to RTO. I would suspect board members / shareholders with real estate interests are forcing the policy. (eg Vanguard holds 10%, with Blackrock close behind). Big corpo is a feudal state, in the s…

>> Why do people forget about board members and shareholders

Board members do not have powers over daily business of the company.

I would add the board to the feodal model as a Church. The head of the board is the Pope.

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