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Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

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Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#641
post #621
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Over the last few years, stablecoins have become a preferred means to hold and move money (for convenience, etc). For avoiding regulation.

My online bank doesn’t support international wire transfers. I had to wire money to a local bank then go to the branch in person, twice, to wire money to my own brother in Europe. He then had to schedule an appointment with his own bank, go in person, and justify why he received such a big transfer, mind you, it was 8k… So yeah, it’s not about regulation. If crypto can help streamline all this, it’s a net positive

Everything you mentioned that you and your brother had to do is because of regulation?

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my circles we have been calling it unregulated free market capitalism, or laissez faire capitalism. More examples include Uber to bypass taxi regulation, and generative AI to bypass copyright regulation (as well as consumer protection regulation in both cases as well as labor protections).

How does a user use AI to bypass copyright?

By training models on unauthorized work and allow users to request them back.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43573156

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm still unclear what the crypto really adds to this play. stripe customers need to move their money around, and they need a trusted source to hold money. stripe could just do that. why add crypto into the mix?

So many of the crypto skeptic comments on this story are massively out of touch with the products and sophistication of the crypto industry. For those of us who aren’t, the question has basically been flipped to “what does a bank add to this situation?” . I’m typing this shortly after buying my groceries with a visa debit card that was funded 30 seconds before the transaction over Lightning Network with Bitcoin that…

> I’m typing this shortly after buying my groceries with a visa debit card that was funded 30 seconds before the transaction over Lightning Network with Bitcoin that was sold at a 0.1% fee for USD and immediately then transacted on Visa debit payment network.

I think I'm confused. You paid 0.1% on this transaction, but if you'd done it with just a Visa debit card tied to a traditional bank account you would have paid 0.0%.

Am I missing something?

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then by using this product you are de facto buying short term US debt lowering the debt costs in a way? Is that what you are describing? And Stripe makes money on that short term carry.

Yeah. Stablecoins create demand for Treasuries which drives the price of Treasuries up and interest rate down. So this pressure lowers debt servicing cost for the US government, and Stripe is the holder of those Treasuries and gets paid interest. This would also serve to counter the drop in global Treasury demand due to recent tariff stuff where presumably our traditional debt holders are losing appetite for US debt.…

If the analogy you say is correct -- I think it makes sense in that its stripe that is actually the individual who is holding the treasury (short term debt) and the stablecoin user can spend it on something, and the US treasury can use the debt. At the end of the day stripe is holding the risk.

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#645
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post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still doesn't answer why you would need any crypto here. Why can't the USD transferred to stripe just be a record in an SQL database saying customer X has N USD in the account, and transferring that around could be done instantly at zero cost by changing an sql row.

That sounds like banking or payment processing. Albeit with later Paypal has proven that you do not always need to return funds, but still there is regulatory history on that... Stable coins are new enough and have not catastrophically crashed yet so there is less oversight.

Stable coins are new enough .... and it's in their name... Stable! :)

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which L1 do you mean? I don't see any fee amounts on Tempo's page. Most stablecoin transactions are on Ethereum and the fees are neither percentages nor fixed dollar amounts. They just have congestion pricing, so it depends on how expensive your transaction is to run and how much traffic there is.

We charge 1.5% of the transaction amount (in USD). https://docs.stripe.com/crypto/stablecoin-payments

That is Stripe's fee. If you use the blockchain directly instead of through Stripe, you don't pay that.

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#647
post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But with multiple parties involved, who has the rights to read and write to the postgres instance? How do we make sure transactions were not forged? How do we know data at rest is not being tampered with? Blockchain solves that. Newer blockchain protocols especially an L1 is much faster, easier on the environment, and provides all the immutability, transparency, and traceability benefits.

You know you can just use regular cryptography to validate data, right? Also, you always have to trust someone, in this case Stripe. Regarding L1 blockchains, how exactly do they solve the speed problem for a distributed global database that needs to be replicated everywhere for the security guarantees to actually work? What do they forgo out of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAP_theorem ?

non-potatoe hardware and elbow grease in the software https://github.com/anza-xyz/agave

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#648
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then by using this product you are de facto buying short term US debt lowering the debt costs in a way? Is that what you are describing? And Stripe makes money on that short term carry.

Still doesn't answer why you would need any crypto here. Why can't the USD transferred to stripe just be a record in an SQL database saying customer X has N USD in the account, and transferring that around could be done instantly at zero cost by changing an sql row.

There are all sorts of protections around who can be a custodian of someone’s money (for good reason)

However there are use cases like running a marketplace, where the platform would like to be able to direct the flow, maybe hold things temporarily in case there are multiple transactions or to split a transaction up between different clients, before paying it out daily or weekly as a lump sum. Often it’s just to avoid fees, because the marketplace operator charges their fees in a different way (like a flat monthly invoice) and they want to assist with money logic as a service, but not be the custodian of the money.

Even just knowing that money has moved at all can be useful, without any ability to touch it, and it’s difficult to get permissions from conservative financial institutions, whereas permissionless ledgers make it easy.

Crypto can help add that nuance. It’s still your money, but you can give a third party the ability to do some things to assist you, without giving the ability to transfer it all to themself and run away with it.

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#649
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post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that imply that some day users would be able to pay using Tempo? I don't think that customers or businesses should see Tempo very much. In the success case, Tempo is a platform like SWIFT or ACH that others employ behind the scenes to orchestrate transactions. "Decentralized, internet-scale SWIFT" isn't exactly the right analogy (there are clearly lots of differences), but it's not totally wrong either. Why are…

> Instant on-chain transfers avoiding trapped liquidity. If you're transferring money from financial institution A to institution B, and the transfer takes a day, you're either slowed a day in taking the next step or you have to somehow cover that float. These are slow by design - abuse/fraud. How does blockchain solve that issue? > * Fees that are lower than cards. Card payments are instant, which is often valuable…

> What is to stop centralized blockchains from incremently increasing fees to the level of CCs over time?

Then users will just go to a different chain that provides a better outcome.

Re: Stripe Launches L1 Blockchain: Tempo

#650
post #46

There are lots of crypto skeptics on HN (and we ourselves were disappointed with crypto's payments utility for much of the past decade), so it might be interesting to share what changed our mind over the past couple of years: we started to notice a lot of real-world businesses finding utility in stablecoins. For example, Bridge (a stablecoin orchestration platform that Stripe acquired) is used by SpaceX for managing…

Can you expand on "easier" and "faster" in easier/faster/better. I understand "better" in terms of transparency, shared standards for integration, and various other properties.

I can less immediately expand "easier" and "faster".

Easier: on chain VMs are far from simple or easy, recovery from mistakes is far more complex. Some other aspects such as the implicit common standard might reduce some amount of need for "green field agreement", and the implicit openness of the protocols avoid some of the traps of "here's a rest api, go", but is this the focus? When you look at a wide variety of the big ticket items in everything that needs doing, is the total set easier? Are there surprises there?

Faster: similar to above, this claim is surprising. There's a lot of by-design overhead to a cryptographic ledger system. Lots of things that can be done to make it wider, to reduce latency and increase throughput, but at a fundamental level core operations such as transaction creation require a lot more processing going into a ledger than into a traditional database, even one at scale. Maybe faster here isn't about system faster, but time to product delivery? If so is that common standards? Are there surprises here too, what were they?

Edit: I see elsewhere in the thread you provide some answers in a slightly different framing. A potentially unfair paraphrase and summary seems to be that this enabled integrations to bypass expensive incumbents and comparatively poor traditional infrastructure. If that's a reasonable approximation my question is this: what if you dropped good sized chunks of the blockchain part that is the main system bottleneck, but kept the rest of the properties (shared micro computation model, shared transaction model, common API standard and protocol, eradication of foot dragging incumbents etc).?

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