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Open models by OpenAI

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Re: Open models by OpenAI

#641

Post by [deleted] »

simonw wrote: post #629
markasoftware wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

still, if you ask this open model to generate a fancy space invaders game with polish, and then ask the other model to generate a bare-bones space invaders game with the fewest lines of code, I think there's a good chance they'd switch places. This doesn't really test the models ability to generate a space invaders game, so much as it tests their tendency to make an elaborate vs simple solution.

My main goal with that benchmark is to see if it can produce HTML and JavaScript code that runs without errors for a moderately complex challenge. It's not a comprehensive benchmark - there are many ways you could run it in ways that would be much more informative and robust. It's great as a quick single sentence prompt to get a feeling for if the model can produce working JavaScript or not.

[deleted]

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#643

Post by itake »

captainregex wrote: post #397
cco wrote: post #357

The lede is being missed imo. gpt-oss:20b is a top ten model (on MMLU (right behind Gemini-2.5-Pro) and I just ran it locally on my Macbook Air M3 from last year. I've been experimenting with a lot of local models, both on my laptop and on my phone (Pixel 9 Pro), and I figured we'd be here in a year or two. But no, we're here today. A basically frontier model, running for the cost of electricity (free with a rounding…

I’m still trying to understand what is the biggest group of people that uses local AI (or will)? Students who don’t want to pay but somehow have the hardware? Devs who are price conscious and want free agentic coding? Local, in my experience, can’t even pull data from an image without hallucinating (Qwen 2.5 VI in that example). Hopefully local/small models keep getting better and devices get better at running bigger…

Local micro models are both fast and cheap. We tuned small models on our data set and if the small model thinks content is a certain way, we escalate to the LLM.

This gives us really good recall at really low cloud cost and latency.

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#644

Post by sznio »

captainregex wrote: post #397
cco wrote: post #357

The lede is being missed imo. gpt-oss:20b is a top ten model (on MMLU (right behind Gemini-2.5-Pro) and I just ran it locally on my Macbook Air M3 from last year. I've been experimenting with a lot of local models, both on my laptop and on my phone (Pixel 9 Pro), and I figured we'd be here in a year or two. But no, we're here today. A basically frontier model, running for the cost of electricity (free with a rounding…

I’m still trying to understand what is the biggest group of people that uses local AI (or will)? Students who don’t want to pay but somehow have the hardware? Devs who are price conscious and want free agentic coding? Local, in my experience, can’t even pull data from an image without hallucinating (Qwen 2.5 VI in that example). Hopefully local/small models keep getting better and devices get better at running bigger…

>Students who don’t want to pay but somehow have the hardware?

that's me - well not a student anymore. when toying with something, i much prefer not paying for each shot. my 12GB Radeon card can either run a decent extremely slow, or a idiotic but fast model. it's nice not dealing with rate limits.

once you write a prompt that mangles an idiotic model into still doing the work, it's really satisfying. the same principle as working to extract the most from limited embedded hardware. masochism, possibly

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#645

Post by etoxin »

captainregex wrote: post #397
cco wrote: post #357

The lede is being missed imo. gpt-oss:20b is a top ten model (on MMLU (right behind Gemini-2.5-Pro) and I just ran it locally on my Macbook Air M3 from last year. I've been experimenting with a lot of local models, both on my laptop and on my phone (Pixel 9 Pro), and I figured we'd be here in a year or two. But no, we're here today. A basically frontier model, running for the cost of electricity (free with a rounding…

I’m still trying to understand what is the biggest group of people that uses local AI (or will)? Students who don’t want to pay but somehow have the hardware? Devs who are price conscious and want free agentic coding? Local, in my experience, can’t even pull data from an image without hallucinating (Qwen 2.5 VI in that example). Hopefully local/small models keep getting better and devices get better at running bigger…

Some app devs use local models on local environments with LLM APIs to get up and running fast, then when the app deploys it switches to the big online models via environment vars.

In large companies this can save quite a bit of money.

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#646

Post by muzani »

captainregex wrote: post #397
cco wrote: post #357

The lede is being missed imo. gpt-oss:20b is a top ten model (on MMLU (right behind Gemini-2.5-Pro) and I just ran it locally on my Macbook Air M3 from last year. I've been experimenting with a lot of local models, both on my laptop and on my phone (Pixel 9 Pro), and I figured we'd be here in a year or two. But no, we're here today. A basically frontier model, running for the cost of electricity (free with a rounding…

I’m still trying to understand what is the biggest group of people that uses local AI (or will)? Students who don’t want to pay but somehow have the hardware? Devs who are price conscious and want free agentic coding? Local, in my experience, can’t even pull data from an image without hallucinating (Qwen 2.5 VI in that example). Hopefully local/small models keep getting better and devices get better at running bigger…

Privacy laws. Processing government paperwork with LLMs for example. There's a lot of OCR tools that can't be used, and the ones that comply are more expensive than say, GPT-4.1 and lower quality.

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#647

Post by tankenmate »

9rx wrote: post #637
int_19h wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried 20b locally and it couldn't reason a way out of a basic river crossing puzzle with labels changed. That is not anywhere near SOTA. In fact it's worse than many local models that can do it, including e.g. QwQ-32b.

I tried the two US presidents having the same parents one, and while it understood the intent, it got caught up in being adamant that Joe Biden won the election in 2024 and anything I do to try and tell it otherwise is dismissed as being false and expresses quite definitely that I need to do proper research with legitimate sources.

chat log please?

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#648

Post by taneq »

philip1209 wrote: post #614
captainregex wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m still trying to understand what is the biggest group of people that uses local AI (or will)? Students who don’t want to pay but somehow have the hardware? Devs who are price conscious and want free agentic coding? Local, in my experience, can’t even pull data from an image without hallucinating (Qwen 2.5 VI in that example). Hopefully local/small models keep getting better and devices get better at running bigger…

I'm excited to do just dumb and irresponsible things with a local model, like "iterate through every single email in my 20-year-old gmail account and apply label X if Y applies" and not have a surprise bill. I think it can make LLMs fun.

I wrote a script to get my local Gemma3 insurance to tag and rename everything in my meme folder. :P

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#649

Post by XCSme »

habosa wrote: post #601

Wow I really didn’t think this would happen any time soon, they seem to have more to lose than to gain. If you’re a company building AI into your product right now I think you would be irresponsible to not investigate how much you can do on open weights models. The big AI labs are going to pull the ladder up eventually, building your business on the APIs long term is foolish. These open models will always be there fo…

They must be really confident in GPT-5 then.

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#650

Post by 9rx »

tankenmate wrote: post #647
9rx wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried the two US presidents having the same parents one, and while it understood the intent, it got caught up in being adamant that Joe Biden won the election in 2024 and anything I do to try and tell it otherwise is dismissed as being false and expresses quite definitely that I need to do proper research with legitimate sources.

chat log please?

https://dpaste.org/zOev0
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