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I want an iPhone Mini-sized Android phone (2022)

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Re: I want an iPhone Mini-sized Android phone (2022)

#641

Post by rickdeckard »

ikari_pl wrote: post #534
rickdeckard wrote: post #422

The hard reality is that there is no PAYING market for such a device, because when it comes to the point-of-sale, most people still choose the normal-size device with better screen/battery/camera. This is equivalent to something I called the "QWERTY paradox" more than a decade ago: Back when the Smartphone market exploded, people disliked typing on a touchscreen and repeatedly stated that they want a device with a ph…

> But whenever someone answered the call and built a Smartphone with QWERTY keyboard, the product failed commercially, simply because also to people claiming they want such a phone, at the point of sale they were less attractive than their slimmer, lighter, all-screen counterparts. I bought Motorola Droid 4 when it came out. I was so desperate to have a new phone with physical QWERTY, that I bought it blindly, even t…

> Because it's easy to blame the most standing out feature.

This is an odd conclusion considering that the Droid 4 was already the FOURTH iteration of a QWERTY device from that ONE brand on that ONE carrier, each iteration selling less than the one before as each faced more competition.

If you're interested, the actual reason for the end of the Droid QWERTY series was that the entire "Droid" brand was a Verizon-exclusive product-line with a big focus in sales and big budget in Marketing, just to compete with the iPhone (which was not available on Verizon until 2011).

For a vendor to win a slot in that lineup meant that Verizon Sales and Marketing put all weight behind selling that device, no matter what device it is. This made the Droid 1 and 2 a huge success, not because of the product but because of the sales channel.

But in year 3 (2011), the iPhone launched on Verizon, which put a huge dent in both sales-focus and budget of Verizon's "Droid" product-line.

Later that year, Droid 3 launched but was selling significantly less than its predecessors.

In that year, Verizon instead sold 6.5m iPhones (up from ZERO iPhones the year before).

So Motorola had to cut their losses on the already ongoing development of the Droid 4, the device was redesigned for a much lower total sales-expectation and then launched in 2012.

But the sales turned out even lower than expected: By Q4 2012 Verizon sold 14m Smartphones, with 10m (!) of them being iPhones.

The most successful Motorola device of that year was the Droid RAZR MAXX HD, a non-QWERTY flagship.

It was clear: That QWERTY keyboard didn't drive sales.

Re: I want an iPhone Mini-sized Android phone (2022)

#642

Post by aziaziazi »

raydev wrote: post #568
amluto wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when it comes to the point-of-sale, most people still choose the normal-size device with better screen/battery/camera. My theory is that much of this effect is an error, or at least a far-less-than-ideal effort, on the part of the designers. Of course it’s hard to sell a low-end “mini” device with a worse camera, worse battery life, etc. But that’s not actually what I, or many people I discuss this with, want. I wo…

> much of this effect is an error, or at least a far-less-than-ideal effort No, the vast majority of people use their phones as video viewers, increasingly so after the rise of TikTok. I have family members in their 30s who don't have laptops or TVs, all media is consumed through their phone, and for most kids/teens across the world it is their primary video consumption device. The average person is trying to maximiz…

There’s a bias here: video consumption is continuous, somewhat long and eye catching (both the movement on the screen and the focussed-starring position à la "look at the sky!"). Therefore we’re more encline to notice video consumption than other usages like music, navigation or notifications check.

Don’t take me wrong: I do agree that "the vast majority of people use their phones as video viewers", but the duration/day is not uniform and many don’t want/need to carry a half-tablet all day long in case someone shared a tiktok on the messaging group.

Re: I want an iPhone Mini-sized Android phone (2022)

#643

Post by rickdeckard »

MetaWhirledPeas wrote: post #491
rickdeckard wrote: post #422

The hard reality is that there is no PAYING market for such a device, because when it comes to the point-of-sale, most people still choose the normal-size device with better screen/battery/camera. This is equivalent to something I called the "QWERTY paradox" more than a decade ago: Back when the Smartphone market exploded, people disliked typing on a touchscreen and repeatedly stated that they want a device with a ph…

> The hard reality is that there is no PAYING market for such a device Show me the tiny Android flagship from the past 5 years that didn't sell well. (You can't, because there wasn't one.)

> Show me the tiny Android flagship from the past 5 years that didn't sell well. (You can't, because there wasn't one.)

Yeah, because in the 5 years before that, the much MUCH more diverse Smartphone industry tried to make it work for several YEARS and failed.

Of all companies, Sony had the longest stamina, releasing 5 generations of 'compact' flagship devices.

If there would have been a sufficiently sized market for that, they would have continued and grown. In reality their business decreased every year.

Today the Smartphone is dominantly a media-consumption device, the only viable answer to "tiny Android flagship" is now a foldable like the Galaxy Flip.

Re: I want an iPhone Mini-sized Android phone (2022)

#644

Post by RichardCA »

cypherpunks01 wrote: post #4

Unfortunately this still hasn't happened yet. There are almost no good options for reasonable size Androids anymore. Zenfone 10 is pretty good, especially with the headphone jack, but it's already out of print and will be obsolete before long. And smaller would be nicer. Any other current gen recommendations?

I went through the same process as a former Pixel 5 user.

Ended up with Galaxy S25 which weighs around 165g.

I pretty much hate Samsung for the One UI interface taking away the stock Android experience. If I could turn it all off I'd do it in a heartbeat.

But I put up with it because there is no other Android phone in 2025 that meets all the checkboxes (less than ~180g, supports all the current LTE and 5G comms, supported by the vendor).

Re: I want an iPhone Mini-sized Android phone (2022)

#645

Post by rickdeckard »

einpoklum wrote: post #463
rickdeckard wrote: post #422

The hard reality is that there is no PAYING market for such a device, because when it comes to the point-of-sale, most people still choose the normal-size device with better screen/battery/camera. This is equivalent to something I called the "QWERTY paradox" more than a decade ago: Back when the Smartphone market exploded, people disliked typing on a touchscreen and repeatedly stated that they want a device with a ph…

> the numbers showed that it didn't attract additional customers, at best it only fragmented the existing customer-base. So, it did sell, but at the expense of larger phones. Which means we are not offered this because it's a bit more profitable for the smartphone makers to only offer larger phones. Extremely annoying.

It cost more but didn't create more sales. It's like creating a car with an additional wheelbase.

What should be much more annoying is this: There is roughly half of the entire Smartphone ecosystem systematically isolated from free market-forces by a single brand, with the other half isolated by an OS. So even if a company would come along with a compelling compact phone, if it cannot instantly replace everything Apple offers, that company can only address HALF of its potential market, and ONLY if it's based on Android then.

Re: I want an iPhone Mini-sized Android phone (2022)

#646

Post by chunkyguy »

GarnetFloride wrote: post #178
pclowes wrote: post #8

My cynical take is that small phones don't exist because they are not the product. Similar to vape pens the product is the addictive substance the device loads. In this case its apps and ads. A smaller screen probably negatively impacts KPIs on many levels, at Google/Apple/Meta/X and on down through the ecosystem. I understand that Apple did not make enough money to make it worth their while to continue the iphone mi…

What was so odd was how Apple fumbled the iPhone mini launch by launching the iPhone SE first. At that point there hadn't been a small phone for a few years, There was pent up demand. The SE came out and it was a big success, lots of people wanted ti because it was a small phone. Then few months later they launched the mini expecting it to sell even more or something. Somehow they missed that everyone that wanted a s…

This is so true. I switch from iPhone 5s to iPhone SE to iPhone 13 mini. After my current phone dies I don't know what phone would I get next.

Re: I want an iPhone Mini-sized Android phone (2022)

#647

Post by procaryote »

neogodless wrote: post #495
MetaWhirledPeas wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The hard reality is that there is no PAYING market for such a device Show me the tiny Android flagship from the past 5 years that didn't sell well. (You can't, because there wasn't one.)

https://www.androidauthority.com/asus-zenfone-10-review-3334... According to this article > The ASUS Zenfone 10 is a compact flagship Android phone from ASUS. Sporting a little 5.9-inch display Though you have to argue it's not tiny . (Don't think it sold all that well, though, at least not mainstream.)

Great phone though. Headphone jack. Great battery life. Fingerprint sensor. Minimal bloatware

Re: I want an iPhone Mini-sized Android phone (2022)

#648

Post by rickdeckard »

aziaziazi wrote: post #642
raydev wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> much of this effect is an error, or at least a far-less-than-ideal effort No, the vast majority of people use their phones as video viewers, increasingly so after the rise of TikTok. I have family members in their 30s who don't have laptops or TVs, all media is consumed through their phone, and for most kids/teens across the world it is their primary video consumption device. The average person is trying to maximiz…

There’s a bias here: video consumption is continuous, somewhat long and eye catching (both the movement on the screen and the focussed-starring position à la "look at the sky!"). Therefore we’re more encline to notice video consumption than other usages like music, navigation or notifications check. Don’t take me wrong: I do agree that "the vast majority of people use their phones as video viewers", but the duration/…

> Therefore we’re more encline to notice video consumption than other usages [..]

That's not relevant, as this is then forming our decision at the point-of-sale towards a media consumption device.

> many don’t want/need to carry a half-tablet all day long in case someone shared a tiktok on the messaging group.

Only while no media is consumed. Many people take less than one photo a day on average, but still the camera quality is a dominant decision-factor.

I'd even argue that the majority of price-premium paid by a customer today is for camera and display. Those will be the factors at the point of sale to decide whether to pay 50-100 USD more or not...

Re: I want an iPhone Mini-sized Android phone (2022)

#649

Post by callalex »

dmonitor wrote: post #629
nordsieck wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a while, I was optimistic that Apple would at least continue to release the SE every 3-ish years. I'm guessing they wanted to finally kill the fingerprint reader and other SE-specific features[1]. And maybe even the SE with its reduced price didn't sell that well. --- 1. Yes, I understand that these features were present in other phones, but the SE was the last phone actively sold by Apple that had them

The SE has always seemed, to me, a way to repurpose older iPhone components into a more modern shell, which is why the SE line has been replace by the 16e. 16e uses iPhone 13 dimensions.

Expanding on this, it's specifically to reuse older tooling in a factory that's not in China like their mainline products.

Re: I want an iPhone Mini-sized Android phone (2022)

#650

Post by rickdeckard »

raydev wrote: post #565
rickdeckard wrote: post #422

The hard reality is that there is no PAYING market for such a device, because when it comes to the point-of-sale, most people still choose the normal-size device with better screen/battery/camera. This is equivalent to something I called the "QWERTY paradox" more than a decade ago: Back when the Smartphone market exploded, people disliked typing on a touchscreen and repeatedly stated that they want a device with a ph…

There is a paying market, it's just overwhelmingly erased by the market for the larger phones, so companies stop bothering.

That's not correct.

The paying market for larger phones also contains the potential market for smaller phones.

There is no ADDITIONAL market in selling smaller phones, and not enough free market to make users switch brand for a smaller phone. So there is nothing to gain.

Crucially, even if 10% of the iPhone users want a smaller phone, they won't buy a smaller phone unless it's compatible to the iOS ecosystem. So roughly half of the market can only be effectively converted by Apple and for Apple it turned out to be not profitable enough to convert them.

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