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Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

proton.me

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Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#641

Post by matkoniecz »

briandw wrote: post #508
matkoniecz wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see people making the same arguments about Steam, Microsoft, Nintendo, etc, etc. Why is Apple special here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Corp._v_European_Com... BTW, I wonder have they paid that €860 million in the end - and how can I check this. > Other companies make stores that deliver application and developers don't get to tell them what to do. AFAIK Microsoft users can install software not…

Not on the Xbox

right, it may be applicable there

sorry for forgetting, I have never used or seen Xbox

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#642

Post by anonymars »

anton-c wrote: post #638
Dessesaf wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, and what about the overwhelming majority of reasons to be outside the house, which are not social reasons? It's a bit silly to abandon all contact with the world just because you have to wait for the doctor, go grocery shopping, sit in the train, etc.

The world got by just fine when answering machines and paper maps were the norm. What is silly about going to do an errand without distractions? It's more efficient in my experience. I wont look up stuff in the store or answer texts that in reality can totally wait. I've yet to have something happen where not having my phone lead to me missing some big emergency or event. Going out into the world is in fact the oppos…

The world got along fine (better, probably) without the internet, yet here we all are.

> What is silly about going to do an errand without distractions? It's more efficient in my experience. I wont look up stuff in the store or answer texts that in reality can totally wait. I've yet to have something happen where not having my phone lead to me missing some big emergency or event. > Going out into the world is in fact the opposite of abandoning all contact, it's directly interfacing. According to your comment, you equated your world with access to your phone.

I have a hard time believing this isn't a disingenuous take just for the sake of arguing. "Hey honey, while you're at the grocery store, could you pick up some milk?" "Hey, I'm finishing up at the doctor, any chance you want to meet for lunch?"

Are we really saying we can't understand the difference between a computer and a cellphone? Are we really unable to imagine any reason why communicating outside the home can be a useful ability? That the ability to do something doesn't mean it is the only way to do something, nor does it mean it has to be done that way at all times in all situations?

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#643

Post by DANmode »

Nevermark wrote: post #436
DANmode wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iOS is not the Internet anymore than Jitterbug is telephones.

Nobody made such a claim. If you serve web pages, you likely serve many of your users on their Apple devices. And you can’t support features of the web for those users if Apple doesn’t want them to have those features, and prohibits browsers with other engines that do support them on their App Store, and prohibits other sources of web browsers. That’s called “gatekeeping”.

Apple is not the Internet, stop allowing your friends, family and colleagues to treat it that way.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#644

Post by DANmode »

mvanbaak wrote: post #465
solarexplorer wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are the gatekeeper to one thing: their own app store. They also control the OS and don't allow side-loading or other app stores (without putting absurd obstacles in the way) So in the end they completely control the devices they sell.

The end user is _NOT_ forced to buy into their ecosystem though. There are alternatives, and depending on where on this globe you ask, apple is not even the one with the biggest marketshare. So while I'm not against the general outcry and need for change, it is not just apple. The problem is way way bigger, and it should not be put onto one of the players in my opinion. Create regulation/platform that sets the limits…

For discussion's sake,

They are "forced" if they:

1) want to be cool

or 2) don't want to be uncool

or 3) don't want to spend effort on a technical decision they think doesn't matter to them

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#645

Post by zahlman »

Dessesaf wrote: post #634
zahlman wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Communicate outside the home" is a pretty vast difference It's genuinely baffling to me that people actually see things this way. When there is a social reason to be outside the house, I take that as a reason not to be staring at a glowing rectangle.

Ok, and what about the overwhelming majority of reasons to be outside the house, which are not social reasons? It's a bit silly to abandon all contact with the world just because you have to wait for the doctor, go grocery shopping, sit in the train, etc.

> It's a bit silly to abandon all contact with the world just because you have to wait for the doctor, go grocery shopping, sit in the train, etc.

On the contrary, I find it liberating, and I hate the idea of people trying to compel me to maintain contact through those situations.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#646

Post by ghusto »

_benton wrote: post #189
ghusto wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The house is set up for ring cameras and makes it either impossible or painful to use anything else. Not because of technical limitations, but in order to steer you away from competitors. Building something with it working in a particular way is fine, but building it in a particular way _in order_ for it not to work with competitors hurts everyone. I get the argument it's just because it makes their products work bet…

Then why not buy one of the multitude of houses that exist with alternative and open camera systems, that are also cheaper and more ubiquitous?

In my case it's because I'm using another of their products (my Mac) that is _not_ locked down like the iDevices. My laptop doesn't lock me into my phone, but buying a phone that they have locked out of my laptop's special Apple-only APIs puts me at a disadvantage.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#647

Post by ghusto »

redeeman wrote: post #626
BlueTemplar wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you assuming that not only this kind of blackmail is even going to work, but that the EU isn't just going to kick out ALL of US infocoms instead ? (Because of this or because of other issues related to Trump or even Bush (Patriot Act).)

rofl, people would never accept not having their locked down iphones or facebook. this would be a very losing battle for politicians

You don't have a good feel for the anti-American-corporation sentiment here.

Politicians in fact pay lip-service to "data sovereignty", for the points it gets them.

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#649

Post by davidjade »

voltaireodactyl wrote: post #617
spogbiper wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A) this has not happened on Android, where 3rd party stores and side loading have always been possible B) if people truly value the Apple lock down system, they will not use applications that don't comply with the lock down system

Just fwiw, my understanding is that this has already happened on both Android and iOS (via TestFlight): https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/29/facebook-project-atlas/

Here's what they just got caught doing on Android - "secretly communicating with Meta’s apps on Android devices"

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/06/protect-yourself-metas...

Re: Proton joins suit against Apple for practices that harm developers and consumers

#650

Post by DidYaWipe »

realusername wrote: post #627
DidYaWipe wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever that means. Do you have specific complaints about Safari? FYI: ...fewer sites... ...if Safari were...

Yes I have, I worked with it for years, there's the officially supported standards and then there's the buggy reality you have to deal with. I've encountered bugs with backgrounds, zIndex, videos, forms, localStorage, SVGs, all basic browser features. Then Safari also is the last non-evergreen browser so it's the slowest to update compared to all the other browsers. If you have a bug, there's a good chance you'll hav…

OK, that's much more informative.

But "non-evergreen" doesn't mean anything.

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