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The $25k car is going extinct?

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Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#641

Post by snarf21 »

aorloff wrote: post #74

Nobody else has said it so I guess I will. The reason the US car industry does not want a $25k car is that the financing opportunities are crap for a car of this low cost. In the same way that airlines exist to offer you a miles based credit card, the US car dealerships survive by offering you a loan for the car. Or perhaps, a car to go with your structured finance opportunity.

This is exactly true. Dealership profit centers are loan origination and extended warranty origination. Parts/Service is designed to pay the bills. (Source: My dad has been selling new cars for 40+ years)

(This is kinda like the Costco model where they aim to break even on all sales with profit only being the membership fees).

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#642

Post by infecto »

reliabilityguy wrote: post #633
LastTrain wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait until you hear about US federal and state automaker subsidies!

Can you provide some information on this, please?

State level tax subsidies.

Federal, things like a the chicken tax which imposes import taxes in categories like small trucks.

Easy top of mind ones.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#643

Post by BanterTrouble »

taneliv wrote: post #504
BanterTrouble wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am still a somewhat of a novice. Your friend is right IMO. Do something simple first. Like a broken piece of trim, replace a light bulb, change the wiper blades yourself and build yourself up. I had repaired bicycles/motorcycles before hand. Past that. I literally go on YouTube and watch someone do the task I intend on doing. I have the service manual downloaded for the car (people dump scans of the manuals online…

A word of warning. Usually these things are simple, but not always. Either way, you'll get your hands dirty, and mind off other things. The YT video for changing my cars' front light bulbs was less than two minutes. After half an hour and a lot of scratches / bruises, I thought I got it done. Started the car, checked the light goes on and off. Scrub hands from dust and dirt, be happy. Mandatory inspection two months…

I had to replace the full wiper system on what is a project vehicle (which I intend to daily once it is all fixed). It took me several months to get the wiper system all working again.

The main problem I ran into was

- Parts that were marked as compatible that were absolute rubbish. You would there is little difference between one brand of wiper arm and another. Apparently not!

- It takes 2 days to order a part from the internet. The nearest part supplier is a 30-40 mile drive. So if you forget to order a part you are either waiting another 2 days or you have a 2 hour drive.

As a result. I ended up rebuying all the parts about 2 times and I should have gone to a local parts dealer where they give you either Genuine, OEM or quality aftermarket. The thing is that I compared the genuine parts that did work with the ones I bought from ebay and visually there is little difference. So now I only buy Genuine, OEM or quality aftermarket.

It is all part of the learning experience. Even though at the time it was frustrating.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#644

Post by pyb »

whatevaa wrote: post #316
puzzlingcaptcha wrote: post #261

You can still buy a new subcompact car (like a Renault Clio or Skoda Fabia) in Europe for under 20k EUR. The more interesting question is why these cars disappeared in the US. And while many of the factors discussed here are true for both EU and US (inflation, interest rates, manufacturer profit margins etc) I am surprised no one mentioned the 'SUV loophole' of US regulations that effectively boosted the SUVs (off-ro…

They are disappearing in europe too. Emissions and other required by law equipment costs just as much on cheap car as it does on expensive one. At some point, cheap cars stop beinf cheap, just a bit cheaper but with way worse quality, so they stop making sense.

In what way are they disappearing ? Here's one for less than £12k. https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?advertising-location...

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#645

Post by weberer »

tlogan wrote: post #577

This is a great example of how factually incorrect narratives - so long as they align with a preferred agenda (which is that things are not affordable any more) - it gets upvoted. Reality check: - In 2025, there are 12 new car models available under $25,000 - In 2005, there were around 10 new models under $15,000 (25k adjusted by inflation) So the premise that “cars used to be much more affordable” is not true. This…

>adjusted by inflation

So the affordability crisis completely disappears once you adjust for the #1 thing that's been making things unaffordable.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#646

Post by LUmBULtERA »

BanterTrouble wrote: post #597
bumby wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of those “useless” sensors like tire pressure or backup camera are required by law. Even if you get a bare bones hatchback (manual transmission, manual locks, manual windows etc.) they’ll be forced to include those.

The tyre pressure sensor you can make an argument to be required by law as uneven tyre pressures can negatively effect handling. However the backup camera being required by law is absolutely ridiculous. You can just either use the mirrors or turn your head.

I'm pretty sure backup cameras are required because they reduced children being run over and killed... You can't see a small kid behind your car with by just mirrors or turning your head.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#647

Post by jjice »

mberning wrote: post #634
csomar wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - In 2005, there were around 10 new models under $15,000 (25k adjusted by inflation) You'll need to provide hard evidence for this. I was pretty young in 2005 but $15.000 would get you a decent car (though not a pickup). That being said, it is possible we have more models now under 25.000 but what $15/25k used to buy you (segment wise) has downgraded.

You are 100% correct. I was a senior in college and my beater died. I went to the Mazda dealer and talked them down to $13k on a brand new Mazda3. My payment was like $280. Now inflation adjusted that is supposedly just shy of $22k. But it’s not the full story. That car was actually very nice for the time and to get an equivalently nice car today it’s not going to be a bare bones Nissan Versa or something like that.

To share an anecdote on the more recent side of the spectrum, I bought a new 2025 Toyota Corolla LE two months ago. It's probably the cheapest vehicle Toyota makes. My cost before tax and title (not sure if that should be included or not) was $23k. It's a pretty great car. Highway averages like 45-50 MPH (25-35 city), it's comfortable, has Car Play, and everything else you'd expect in a car now.

I'll say that the two things I'm used to having in a car that this one doesn't (since it's such a base trim) is automatic seat adjustment (not a big deal, I kind of prefer it since the automatic seats on my last vehicle died) and no remote start.

All that to say that I think that inflation adjusted measure can still get you a fine car. As for the argument about income vs inflation in GP, I have no idea.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#648

Post by HumanOstrich »

willsmith72 wrote: post #621
foobarian wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention how much more functionality present day cars have. (mentioned in a couple comments elsewhere, but things like airbags/backup cameras/other sensors etc).

Well of course, but tech gets cheaper over time too. Just look at the price and power of today's MacBook air vs 10 years ago. You get way more value for money as you should

Do you buy 10-year-old tech like MacBook Airs so you can take advantage of the cost savings?

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#649

Post by giantg2 »

reliabilityguy wrote: post #630
tlogan wrote: post #577

This is a great example of how factually incorrect narratives - so long as they align with a preferred agenda (which is that things are not affordable any more) - it gets upvoted. Reality check: - In 2025, there are 12 new car models available under $25,000 - In 2005, there were around 10 new models under $15,000 (25k adjusted by inflation) So the premise that “cars used to be much more affordable” is not true. This…

While I do agree with you, I think you have to account for income as well, and not only the car price (even if adjusted for inflation) to determine affordability.

Pretty sure inflation adjusted median income has increased from 2005 to 2025. But it sure doesn't feel like it. I wonder if other costs such as housing and healthcare have gotten less affordable affecting the real affordability. Inflation adjustments should capture this, but it feels like it doesn't.

Re: The $25k car is going extinct?

#650

Post by LUmBULtERA »

BanterTrouble wrote: post #610
threetonesun wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tire sensors and backup cameras are dirt cheap though. Maybe lane warning and collision avoidance are a bit more but they’re both 10+ year old technology, they can’t cost that much. Also all of these things are good. Redoing the steering wheel or using 22” wheels or adding heating for each individual ass cheek… that I don’t need, and it adds to the cost.

Anything that takes control away from me I am not interested in. I am both legally and financially liable for anything the car does. I am also not trusting my life to some poorly maintained software written by someone in another country.

Being legally and financially liable doesn't bring back the kid you ran over because you couldn't see them with your mirrors or turning your head...
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