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Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)

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641–650 of 957 posts

Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)

#641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actively being discussed in Congress and is a part of OBBBA. " H.R.1990 - American Innovation and R&D Competitiveness Act of 2025 " https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/1990... > A bipartisan bill reintroduced in Congress last month could offer long-awaited relief to small tech companies hit hardest by an obscure federal tax change — one that many founders say is threatening their survival. >…

I'm confused. The requirement to amortize software engineer expenses was introduced in Trump's first term, but now he wants to revoke it in OBBBA? But only for 5 years?

Besides "kicking the can" to another administration, the 5 year thing is a hack to get budget legislation past the CBO.

The CBO calculates costs over 10 years, so if you introduce a tax cut that sunsets after 5 years it looks much less bad (for the deficit) than it really is. Then you hope that in 5 years some other legislation comes along to renew it for another 5 years...

Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)

#642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are studies designed to show positive results, and are susceptible to the criticism the parent identified. IRS enforcement has diminishing returns because the IRS starts with the small minority of people who are very obviously cheating on their taxes. Those people get audited and the IRS very easily recovers money from them. If you want to audit more people than that, you have to audit people who are less likel…

The criticism the parent identified has almost nothing to do with these studies. It was that there is an equilibrium point where enforcement is counterproductive, but it did not identify anything about where that is or how that point relates to where we are. At some point it gets to that level, but all of these studies show it is extremely far from that at present. This is also not at all what the IRS has been advoca…

> The criticism the parent identified has almost nothing to do with these studies.

The criticism the parent identified is that the cost to the IRS is not the total cost to the public (i.e. innocent taxpayers being audited despite making only honest mistakes or having done nothing wrong at all), which is exactly a problem with these studies. To know where the equilibrium point is, you have to take into account these other costs, and the studies fail to do that.

> The IRS and others have been advocating for years for the resource to go after actual tax cheats of wealthy individuals and corporations, whose tax situations are (intentionally) so complex that it is a serious investment to audit.

What's really going on here is that those are the taxpayers it isn't as cost effective to audit because they have sophisticated lawyers, so they're much less likely to be violating the law. They're doing something which is complicated and then paying very little in taxes, but the complicated thing they were doing is legal so you can't get anything from auditing them. Meanwhile auditing them costs a lot because it's so complicated, so the ROI of doing it is pretty bad.

In particular it's worse than the ROI of auditing other taxpayers who can't afford such expensive lawyers and therefore are more likely to have made a mistake that allows the IRS to collect. But auditing those people makes the IRS much less sympathetic, because those people aren't the billionaires and the money the IRS collects is mostly a result of honest mistakes.

> Once you do audit them however, their tax dodging decreases for years into the future.

The assumption is that they were doing something unlawful to begin with, and then you're talking about the non-billionaires again.

Moreover, what really happens is that the people who made mistakes learn to hire tax lawyers. And then if you audit them again it comes up clean, but that doesn't mean they're paying more in taxes, because tax lawyers are pros at finding legal ways to avoid taxes, so what you've really done is encourage them to hire the people whose primary job it is to minimize tax revenue.

> The people that would spend time defending violators are otherwise fully employed doing the opposite... coming up with ways to get around the taxes their employers or customers are supposed to be paying. Instead of costing $2, that comes out as getting yet another $2 out of that audit by distracting a societal parasite.

It is definitely not the case that the number of tax lawyers and accountants employed is unrelated to the number of audits the IRS does. The more they do, the more business there is for those professions and the more people enter them. These are people who could have been doing something else and, moreover, people who consumed the resources that someone else could have used to do something better.

Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)

#644
post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1M eng salaries, 5m revenue, 4M other costs. Today I am cash flow neutral at 5m revenue, but with this I'm paying taxes on 800k "profits", which don't exist anywhere but on paper. But I have to pay the taxes in real dollars.

This is going to sound silly but you paid 800k in profits, but now have 4 years of banked costs you can use to _reduce_ your profit margin. So you pay taxes on 800k profits, but then each subsequent year you reduce you profit by 200k, even though you don't have 200k leaving the door. If 1M eng salaries was your stable state, then after several years you're... going to have 1M in costs to subtract from your profit! Th…

That is assuming there is stil a company left.

Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)

#646

I think people are missing the actual process used by Finance teams relating to this issue. I am a former CFO and spent a fair amount of time with this issue in my last role. The firm had a significant amount of software engineering expense related to its core operating system that was the backbone of the company. The FASB accounting rules drive the capitalization of software expenses, not the tax rules. The FASB def…

At this point, does this really affect many people? Most businesses should be well on their way to the expenses normalizing. Outside of new businesses and old businesses splurging, would this really accomplish much?

Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)

#647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scripted automation is quite literally development of IP. It's an asset that belongs to the company and will be counted as such on its balance sheet.

Anytime someone has a good idea, it should be depreciated over 5 years? Why is software special? It is all just the composition of simple machines.

I'm pretty sure it's because other industries wondered why they were having to spread such costs over 5 years while software firms were able to write them all down at once. It's not that I have a strong opinion about this either way (I'm not running or employed in a business where this matters), but that ultimately this is a philosophical argument. There isn't an objectively correct way to do this, how you view it is down to what your economic interests happen to be.

Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)

#648
I always wonder when reading about things like this, and had a fun dinner discussion about it a while ago. What would happen with the following instead?

1) Remove all tax deductions entirely.

2) Have no corporate income tax at all.

3) Tax cash and cash equivalents at a very high rate (20% ???) per year, tax other assets at a lower rate (5%).

Basically just have taxes that are high enough to encourage productive use of all assets (above inflation), and to really really encourage companies not to horde capital. Seems much simpler.

I might also be convinced that taxes shouldn't even kick in until a corporation is above a certain size (5 milion USD?).

Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)

#649
post #614
post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we do is enforce that everyone keeps one ticket in JIRA as in progress and use a timekeeping add on. The tickets role up to epics and initiatives. I review each top level initiative and epic with finance and they deem it capitalizable or not. Then we add a haircut. It’s really not that much work. We have an hour meeting monthly to work it out but I make sure to exclude my mainline engineers. They don’t need that

How many engineer-hours are lost amongst the whole company each semester to report all these mindless tickets?

A lot.

It also warps outcomes towards a metric which "is only used for tax purposes" but which also is reported ritualistically with an expectation of compliance.

Re: Tell HN: Help restore the tax deduction for software dev in the US (Section 174)

#650
post #630

Japan has required amortization of capitalized software over five years for qualifying internal-use software since at least 2000. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe most other countries have similar rules. Until 2022, U.S. companies had a real competitive advantage. Software developer salaries in Japan are depressed—other roles too, but especially engineers. Without digging too deep, perhaps the previously unfavo…

> most other countries have similar rules.

This is the first instance I’ve heard of where salaries aren’t considered remuneration for basic labour. It’s a fairly weird interpretation of reality that spending $200k on a human’s availability results in a guaranteed $200k of capital being created, regardless of which country this kind of tax law exists in.

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