I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud • Hacker News Board

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#641

Post by ryao » Tue, Mar 25, 2025, 9:38 PM UTC

blincoln wrote: post #418

ryao wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have had more luck with our appliances: * The clothes dryer only needed a new circuit board that cost half of a replacement. * The microwave only needed a new magnetron that cost the price of a new microwave oven. - Some would find this insane, but none of the new microwaves matched the kitchen decor and replacing everything to make it match the latest fad would have been truly insane. * The refrigerator’s gasket…

There are plenty of dishwashers now that will do fine without rinsing the dishes beforehand, even e.g. LG models that are not expensive. Needing to rinse used to be the norm, but if one buys a dishwasher in the 2020s that won't work without rinsing in advance, one is getting scammed out of their money and time by lazy manufacturers, IMO.

Our dishwasher is at least 10 years old.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#642

Post by areyourllySorry » Tue, Mar 25, 2025, 10:46 PM UTC

DanielHB wrote: post #620

freedomben wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that still requires installing their app on a mobile device, and that app will still have invasive access to data and internet, etc. If we have to have an "app" I'd much rather it be a built-in web server (despite the inevitable security decay) that serves up a local-only web interface. Best scenario though is to just give me hardware controls and a simple display :-)

Apps require permissions and they can't just sniff the network willy nilly. Any IoT device on your network has way more access to privacy-related things than apps.

apps can stop being supported by new devices if not updated

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#643

Post by nextts » Wed, Mar 26, 2025, 1:09 AM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #427

nextts wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bosch knows how to perfect asshole design. On some of their ovens there is a secret key sequence (like game cheat) to get the buttons working again. Every 6 months you need to do this otherwise pay for a service call to do this. Or have a defunct oven. But it is not public info they have released (but had been leaked on YT) So they have software with a bug and a workaround they won't tell you about. Ideally they shou…

Stupid question but have you tried turning it off and on for a while? It might be something simpler

Yep

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#644

Post by nextts » Wed, Mar 26, 2025, 1:11 AM UTC

Fargren wrote: post #611

publicmail wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually no - I forgot about my Bosch dishwasher that uses capacitive touch buttons. Great idea for something that is often touched with wet fingers…

Sidetrack, maybe a silly question: Under what circumstances are you touching your dishwasher with wet fingers? Plates are dry when they go in and dry when they come out if you have a decent dishwasher. Capacitive buttons suck, but they are no worse in dishwashers than in any other appliance, in my usage at least

Plates are not dry in either direction really.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#645

Post by perryizgr8 » Wed, Mar 26, 2025, 2:37 AM UTC

What does Bosch even get out of doing this? Why not add a simple 7 segment display (decades old tech) and make it possible to use the machines functions from the controls? It's not like they make money from active Bosch accounts or anything.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#646

Post by mulmen » Wed, Mar 26, 2025, 6:24 AM UTC

globular-toast wrote: post #407

brewdad wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. A modern dishwasher uses 2-3 gallons per load. If your dishwasher has Eco modes or a half-cycle mode, you can use even less. A typical kitchen faucet will deliver 2 gallons per minute. If you run your faucet for longer than that, and most people absolutely will, you are wasting water by hand washing.

These arguments justifying dishwashers are silly. How expensive is your water that this small saving is going to offset the cost of electricity and the appliance itself? You use a dishwasher because you're lazy, not because of efficiency or cost benefits. It's OK to just say. I hate washing dishes too. 1.5 hours a day and a high water bill is a ridiculous exaggeration, though. Like with anything, the more you do it t…

It’s not just laziness or cost. Dishwashers use less water than manual washing. Clean water is a scarce resource.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#647

Post by darkwater » Wed, Mar 26, 2025, 8:14 AM UTC

account42 wrote: post #498

darkwater wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The current generation went through a round of cost cutting and added WiFi bullshit to everything I'm no dishwasher expert and I guess they did their homework but over a period of 10 years, how can be cheaper to remove the local functionality, add a wifi chip, redo the manuals, and pay for the datacenter costs?

It's probably more that they add the online features because some users want them and then think if they already have that they can save some cents on buttons. Also I seriously doubt the hosting costs are more than a rounding error for a multiple-hundred-dollar appliance.

> Also I seriously doubt the hosting costs are more than a rounding error for a multiple-hundred-dollar appliance.

Ok but...

> then think if they already have that they can save some cents on buttons.

Isn't this a rounding error as well, on a >500$ appliance?

How can we have at the same time dishwashers with no 7-segments display because it's too expensive and other brands with wifi on every model? It cannot be just for costs, there ought to be marketing reasons behind this.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#648

Post by Gibbon1 » Wed, Mar 26, 2025, 8:22 AM UTC

darkwater wrote: post #647

account42 wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably more that they add the online features because some users want them and then think if they already have that they can save some cents on buttons. Also I seriously doubt the hosting costs are more than a rounding error for a multiple-hundred-dollar appliance.

> Also I seriously doubt the hosting costs are more than a rounding error for a multiple-hundred-dollar appliance. Ok but... > then think if they already have that they can save some cents on buttons. Isn't this a rounding error as well, on a >500$ appliance? How can we have at the same time dishwashers with no 7-segments display because it's too expensive and other brands with wifi on every model? It cannot be just…

So I have the same model. And night before last instead of starting. It bleeped and flashed a row of LED's. And that's it. It doesn't have an LED display to show error codes. Pulled it out, nothing seems wrong. But I have no idea what it's upset about.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#649

Post by lmz » Wed, Mar 26, 2025, 9:22 AM UTC

kevincox wrote: post #492

lmz wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it has some embargoed technology and needs to make sure it's not in China or something.

IANAL but I'm pretty sure the issue is distribution, so as long as they don't sell their dishwasher in China it isn't their problem. If someone buys and resells it in China then the reseller is in trouble. (Obviously it is a bit more complicated if they should know about this reselling but it shouldn't require online activation.)

It's a joke. It's probably made there anyway.

Re: I won't connect my dishwasher to your cloud

#650

Post by fransje26 » Wed, Mar 26, 2025, 9:50 AM UTC

valiant55 wrote: post #589

fransje26 wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the reality is I've already sunk about 6 hours total into the whole operation That's a bit of a sunken-cost fallacy. Here is a device that is going to be used every day for the coming 5 to 10 years, with a least 3 useful functions that cannot be accessed, and it's going to annoy you every time you use it. Some devices simply have to work without friction, and that is worth spending home maintenance time on (and our…

Jeff has 5 kids (mentioned in the video). I'm surprised he had 6 hours to fluff around with a dishwasher in the first place. I have 2 and certainly am careful about how I spend any free time I manage to find.

I didn't watch the video, so I didn't know the specifics, although he did mention a tight schedule and children in his post.

But especially in such a case, I still believe that the general point stands. If time and energy is tight, you cannot afford to have friction points due to the appliances you use daily, because the friction they cause is a perpetual reoccurrence that is really energy draining.

I understand that time is short and budgets can be tight, but on such things, put the effort and the money in to make sure they work the first time around, and to make sure they stay out of our way.

Life is too short to be the slave of the malfunctioning devices around us, and it's only once the re-occurring low-level friction points are gone that we generally realize how draining they can be in everyday life.