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Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

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Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#641

Post by tremon »

amazingamazing wrote: post #445
brendoelfrendo wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that a strike can be illegal is, in and of itself, an erosion of worker rights.

unpopular opinion - but public workers should not be able to go on strike, and in fact shouldn't even be allowed to unionize. it's antithetical to democracy. they should simply run for office and change things, not hold taxpayers' services hostage. unions make sense for private organizations because private organizations are effectively authoritarian entities, not democracies. there is no mechanism in which you could…

There's a very obvious error in your reasoning: the relationship between public worker and the government is a relationship between an employer and an employee, not between a government and the governed. Why shouldn't such workers be extended the same rights as others?

there is no mechanism in which you could actually "vote" anyone out

Here again, you are implying that public workers somehow do have that ability, to vote "out" their employer. How do you imagine that works, in practice? Do you think it would be better for public workers to form a PAC and run public campaigns for or against a specific candidate? That would be a much more problematic option, as something like that would make public workers political entities themselves and pit them against the government they're supposed to keep running.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#642

Post by paulddraper »

coryfklein wrote: post #526
teractiveodular wrote: post #240

To put this in perspective, this is the first fatal crash of a US commercial airliner in 16 years (Colgan Air Flight 3407 on February 12, 2009) and the first fatal commercial airliner crash in the United States in 12 years (since Asiana Airlines Flight 214 on July 6, 2013). We like to throw shade at Boeing, the FAA etc, but this is still an incredible accomplishment, especially given the explosive growth of traffic o…

Can you clarify the difference between these? > first fatal crash of a US commercial airliner > first fatal commercial airliner crash in the United States Is it that the 2009 crash was a US-manufactured plane while the 2013 crash was not manufactured in the US but happened in the US?

Operated vs Located

The 2009 crash was a Canadian-manufactured, US-operated plane, located in the US.

The 2013 crash was a US-manufactured, Korean-operated plane, located in the US.

---

The operating county has far more ability to ensure pilot training, maintenance of aircraft, on-board safety procedures, etc.

E.g. the 2013 crash was due to mismanagement of altitude by the (non-US) crew, resulting in crashing short of the runway.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#643

Post by dghlsakjg »

gosub100 wrote: post #612
rob74 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> more funding/staffing for ATC More funding? From an administration that is currently doing its best to get rid of as many federal employees as possible and has an extra "department" (led by you-know-who) dedicated to that? What they will probably do with ATC is privatize it (which is actually a reasonable thing to do - it's private in most of Europe, but if the intention behind it is to save money, it will probably…

There's a privately controlled tower at KSQL (San Carlos) and there have been numerous incidents of ATC losing their cool on pilots, sometimes brand new students. All the YT comments say it's because it's privately controlled and understaffed and many pilots vouch for similar drama happening to them. I can't prove it, just passing along a data point. Obviously this problem could be solved by paying better and having…

KSQL's current controllers have announced that they are all quitting effective tomorrow.

The private corp running the tower lowered their pay by eliminating COL adjustments in the latest contract renewal (a big deal for an airport that is in Palo Alto).

This weekend, with no planning, there will be a completely untowered airport operating underneath the airspace of SFO.

The management is scrambling right now to prevent this, but the best case scenario is that controllers with no experience or local knowledge in training will be thrown into a tower on the busiest day of the week with no colleagues that have done the job before.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#644

Post by gosub100 »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #643
gosub100 wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a privately controlled tower at KSQL (San Carlos) and there have been numerous incidents of ATC losing their cool on pilots, sometimes brand new students. All the YT comments say it's because it's privately controlled and understaffed and many pilots vouch for similar drama happening to them. I can't prove it, just passing along a data point. Obviously this problem could be solved by paying better and having…

KSQL's current controllers have announced that they are all quitting effective tomorrow. The private corp running the tower lowered their pay by eliminating COL adjustments in the latest contract renewal (a big deal for an airport that is in Palo Alto). This weekend, with no planning, there will be a completely untowered airport operating underneath the airspace of SFO. The management is scrambling right now to preve…

good for them (I'm not advocating for a more dangerous, uncontrolled airport, I think pilots should not fly there). Any private ATC should be required to put 50-100M in escrow (at a minimum) and/or insurance to cover mass casualty events caused by their failure.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#645

Post by alistairSH »

warner25 wrote: post #597
alistairSH wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure "training flight" in this context simply means they weren't actively carrying passengers. And it's not indicative of a junior or unqualified pilot (doesn't rule it out, just can't infer much from the phrase in this context). At the extreme, fighter pilots fly almost exclusively training flights because we're not actively waging war at the moment. There are a few military bases in the area - Belvior (A…

Yes, the public needs to understand this. That unit's [1] task is to provide transportation to senior government officials and security forces around the capital, including to and from that airport. If they didn't train to operate there, then their first time doing so would be with someone like the Secretary of Defense onboard or during some other mission that's critical to national security. And the aviators assigne…

So, Hegseth indicated the Army helicopter was using night vision… would that be normal when flying in a dense urban airspace?

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#646

Post by 1659447091 »

cutemonster wrote: post #618
gumball-amp wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, there's a long-standing scandal and lawsuit around the ATC and its hiring practices that will inevitably play into the analysis of this tragedy -- details here: https://www.tracingwoodgrains.com/p/the-faas-hiring-scandal-... I can well believe it has absolutely nothing to do with this disaster, but I don't think either political side has any interest in arguing over the fine points of that distinction.

Is this for real: (questions for becoming an ATC, linked from the article you liked. It's so weird so I'm not sure) https://kaisoapbox.com/projects/faa_biographical_assessment/ The questions are mind-blowing. And: > In the present day, there is a critical shortage of ATCs, with the FAA having 1,000 fewer ATCs in 2023 than it did in 2012. If that's how they were hiring (although they don't do today), I could understan…

>> In the present day, there is a critical shortage of ATCs, with the FAA having 1,000 fewer ATCs in 2023 than it did in 2012.

> If that's how they were hiring (although they don't do today), I could understand if that has a bit contributed to fewer ATCs today.

The shortage is that they have not been able to quickly replace all of the personnel that took early retirement options during COVID, while also stopping the hiring & training for an extended period during that time.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#647

Post by jonstewart »

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #318
jonstewart wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not be surprised if ATC _at DCA_ gets some more funding given the complicated air traffic environment and its unique position as Congress’s second-favorite airport.

What is Congress' favorite airport?

Their respective home airports, of course. ;-)

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#648

Post by jonstewart »

MattSayar wrote: post #559
jonstewart wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DCA is great to fly in and out of (I live in DC proper), as it's close, isn't hard to get to, and has a Metro (our subway) station right in front of the terminal, and the airport is fairly easy to navigate once you're in. Dulles now has a Metro station, but it's still far away from the terminal and it's hard to navigate, with gates very far away from the terminal; other than the Saarinen architecture, everything else…

> the airport is fairly easy to navigate once you're in. I see you skipped talking about how terrible it is navigating the road traffic to arrivals/departures

You mean if you’re driving? Sometimes there’s bad traffic around the ring and sometimes there’s not, a lot of airports are like that.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#649

Post by defrost »

alistairSH wrote: post #645
warner25 wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the public needs to understand this. That unit's [1] task is to provide transportation to senior government officials and security forces around the capital, including to and from that airport. If they didn't train to operate there, then their first time doing so would be with someone like the Secretary of Defense onboard or during some other mission that's critical to national security. And the aviators assigne…

So, Hegseth indicated the Army helicopter was using night vision… would that be normal when flying in a dense urban airspace?

It'd be normal to have night vision to hand for either a training mission or for a secure VIP transport mission.

It's unclear whether they were being used at the time of the crash, but it'd be part of training.

The reporting to hand ATM makes statements such as:

  Earlier in the day, Mr. Hegseth said the crew had night vision goggles. However, it was unclear whether the crew was wearing the goggles at the time of the crash, Army officials said.
~ https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/30/us/politics/army-helicopt...

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#650

Post by jonstewart »

alistairSH wrote: post #588
atlasunshrugged wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, yeah I think that's maybe the Virginia delegation's favorite airport but I'm highly skeptical it is for other members as it's pretty far and while it does have more flights, I don't think it's incredible. For international flights when traveling for work, many Congresspeople will use milair anyways. For reference, I worked as a staffer in Congress for a couple of years and just picked this up although I've never…

Congressmen from areas that can serve DCA tend to pick DCA due to proximity/convenience. Noted elsewhere, it's a bit easier to navigate internally (smaller, newer terminal building vs IAD), though I don't know how much that impacts Congressmen - I'm guessing they at minimum are using first class/preferred facilities and not queuing up with us plebes for security. Periodically, Congress pushes to have DCA take more tr…

What is the rationale for the mile limit (other than protectionism for Dulles, which is what I suspect the answer is)? DCA’s short runways and tight space mean larger aircraft can’t use so that’s already a natural limiter.

My bias is that I think Dulles needs to become a better airport rather than limiting competition with DCA.

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