School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study • Hacker News Board

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#641

Post by NoPicklez » Mon, Dec 16, 2024, 12:26 AM UTC

agile-gift0262 wrote: post #397

When I see all these "phone ban" experiments, I always wonder, is the phone that's the issue, or is it the apps/websites tailored for engagement (a.k.a addiction)? Maybe instead of banning kids from using phones, they should consider banning companies from making their apps addictive on purpose.

I agree with the apps are bad argument because they are just so addictive

I think its very challenging to come up with a solution of what part of it makes it addictive and how they can not do that.

Taking that logic we would need to remove almost all video games, social media and even online videos.

They are all marketed to keep people engaging with them.

Almost everything we create has been developed so that people engage with it, that's why we have marketing companies.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#642

Post by bdangubic » Mon, Dec 16, 2024, 1:21 AM UTC

quesera wrote: post #612

bdangubic wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

spoken like a true parent, albeit irresponsible one… this situation is also rehearsed - phone on silent, text only, safe words … hope you never need to be prepared for it

This is a terrifying way to raise children. I.e. it sounds like you've terrified your children. Why would you do that?

there are active shooter drills in schools across the United States since like PK so you know, terrifying part is already done by government which encourages slaughter of children in schools (e.g. sandy hook) which then schools have to prepare for… then as a parent you have to try to explain this to your kid and best way to do that is to prepare some more on a personal level

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#643

Post by myko » Mon, Dec 16, 2024, 1:24 AM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #120

myko wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yep, my kids HS has a cloth rack hanging on the door to place phones in so the kids can grab them when a shooting is happening but doesn't have them during class

How often is their a school shooting when this would be useful?

Not one I'm aware of since my oldest has been at the school, but there has been at another in the same city

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#644

Post by bawolff » Mon, Dec 16, 2024, 1:24 AM UTC

szszrk wrote: post #226

nothrabannosir wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think bawolff was being sarcastic

Which just shows that communicating through sarcasm brings more harm than benefit. I know, I'm guilty. Currently on "sarcasm rehab" for the sake of people around me and myself.

On the other hand, my sarcastic post got much more upvotes than my normal posts do (currently at 55 pts). Obviously fake internet points is not the same thing as a good post. Many upvoted things don't deserve to be and vice versa. However it is certainly a mixed signal here.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#645

Post by strken » Mon, Dec 16, 2024, 1:28 AM UTC

logifail wrote: post #590

doug_durham wrote: post #584

It seems to me the issue is phone apps that are designed to exploit the limbic system. This is why you don't have slot machines in most localities. The phone itself is just a computer. Using the phone to write, help with homework, or communicate doesn't seem to be the problem. It's the addictive gambling-like apps (TikTok, Instagram, ...) that what generate compulsive and disruptive behavior.

> The phone itself is just a computer. Using the phone to write, help with homework, or communicate doesn't seem to be the problem. If you want children to learn to be able to write, you have to get them to do it themselves. Not with a computer, not with a phone, not with ChatGPT, with a piece of paper and a pen(cil). They may not like this(!)

[citation needed], unless you're talking about the merely physical aspect of writing

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#646

Post by Levitating » Mon, Dec 16, 2024, 1:33 AM UTC

warner25 wrote: post #555

Levitating wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously it's the apps. If you would give all kids phones that could only call and play snake they wouldn't be so engaged with it all the time. Most modern social media apps are now redesigned to allow for endless doomscrolling. YouTube, TikTok, Instagram all allow to scroll through content fed to you by an algorithm without even being able to preview the next video. It just slams it in your face. It's extremely add…

Well, I think it's the combination of the apps as you described with the devices to connect to them always being within arms reach. Take away either one (or take away the unlimited, always-on network access, like I have a 500 MB per month data plan) and I think we're having a very different conversation. > seen what these apps do to people only a few years younger than me and it's just depressing I'll make the obliga…

> Well, I think it's the combination of the apps as you described with the devices to connect to them always being within arms reach.

I wholly agree.

As for the personal experience, I am only 21 so I left high school (in europe) around 3 years ago. TikTok started to boom around 4 years ago. What I've noticed is that my peers who are just a few years younger than me use these apps much more. To the point where it's just unbearable to watch a movie with them because they open their phone up every minute just to get fed some random content. My sister who is 4 years younger than me is insecure to the point of having developed an eating disorder, and I know that social media played a big part in that. Both the insecurity and specifically the pressure to eat healthy.

The algorithms in these apps really play into your faults. If you engage with videos about healthy eating because you are insecure about your weight you will only get fed more of the same. And the creators on these platforms can make extremely toxic and harmful content.

I myself have tried to get TikTok to only feed me conspiracy theories and managed to do it in minutes. Some of my friends have succeeded in getting it to show self-harm content in a few minutes as well. I really find these platforms that give you absolutely no control over the content you're fed dangerous.

> the situation seems not much better for older people

I personally don't know many older people that really consume much phone content. My parents sure don't, neither does my older sister or my colleagues. For the most part anyway. So at least in my social circles the situation does seem better.

I even know a lot of people of my age that actively try to fight it. For instance by disabling video suggestions on YouTube.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#647

Post by mixmastamyk » Mon, Dec 16, 2024, 1:33 AM UTC

nosbo wrote: post #638

mixmastamyk wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. We always hear from the geek who only learned to program solely due to unfiltered internet access growing up. But not folks like you. I personally learned to program before widespread internet access, so know it’s not at all a requirement.

I'm not that old (got home internet in my teens). But got an old c64 from my uncle when I was in primary school. It came with a stack of magazines. In them was all this code you had to copy paste to get a basic game. I don't remember exactly but I don't recall I had anyway to save them either. I don't have anything to add, but you just made me think of a neat memory.

Yes, Commodore and cassette/floppy was one way. Books from the library on a PC is another.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#648

Post by bdangubic » Mon, Dec 16, 2024, 1:34 AM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #166

bdangubic wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you cannot possibly be serious, right? no “learn from my mistakes eh?” if I am a heavy smoker, heavy drinker etc I have to make sure my 11-year old lights up with me and cracks open a bottle after a long day in school…? still hoping you are joking though…

They're not making the argument you think they are. They are saying leaving by example is a good tool. They are not saying that every single rule must be symmetric

> Insisting kids follow a standard of "healthy" that you won't apply to yourself smacks of hypocrisy and bullying.

don’t think you are following or reading…

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#649

Post by mixmastamyk » Mon, Dec 16, 2024, 1:40 AM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #368

flexie wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By now, most schools in Denmark are banning phones during school hours. My kids' school did it two years ago. I have no idea if it has improved my kids' "cognitive skills", and frankly I don't care that much about their academic level. They are kids. They should run around, play and be happy, and then they will learn what they need. As a parent it's wonderful to know that the kids have this 5-7 hour break from the sc…

Someone realized it's not a good idea to hand a bunch of teens cameras, give them unlimited possibility to bully eachother anonymously and then force them to share a space for 8 hours every day, including changing clothes and showering for gym class. In hindsight it seems obvious.

Is showering at school still a thing? I've seen it supposedly in the movies, but we never did at our california school in the 90s.

Re: School smartphone ban results in better sleep and improved mood: study

#650

Post by red369 » Mon, Dec 16, 2024, 2:04 AM UTC

rmbyrro wrote: post #308

slavik81 wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, I locked my phone in a rental car and it took a week for them to mail it back to me. I was surprised, but I found that it made very little difference. I did not feel like I had any more time than usual. The only real impact was that I was locked out of anything that required two-factor authentication.

losing 2fa gives me anxiety. google auth is sync'ing now. it's a terrible idea from a security standpoint, though, which gives me even more anxiety... i guess i can't avoid security-related anxieties

Me too, but it might help to find become clear on which of the accounts you have 2FA turned on for could be reset by having them send an email, and which you would be locked out of.

The email providers I use all require 2FA, but as long as I had paper backups of recovery codes for those I could probably use those to get back into most other accounts. No comment on whether I do have aforementioned paper backups, or whether I'm just relying on having a couple of devices with access to the codes, and then hopes, prayers and obsolete e-waste in drawers...

Of course, travelling makes the puzzle even harder, and that's when it's often even more important to not get locked out of accounts. I had intended to offer a suggestion to worry less, but instead I'm going to go away and think about this more myself.