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Steam games will need to disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

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Re: Steam games will need to disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

#641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an expert but I've done a little reading and basically the combination of real time actions and a network makes it intractable, you end up just having to trust the client on some things (or having to make trade offs like a client potentially not having the information needed to display the game state to the player, or choppy/unresponsive gameplay as a function of latency).

>some things Any specific examples? I hear this said all the time and it's almost never true. Movement, for example: many decide to just let clients be fully authoritative over their positions and then act shocked when teleport hacks drop. Just keep track of the player's max move speed server-side, continually validate, and flag if they consistently move faster than is possible according to the server. No one is ever…

A simple example is clock timing in chess, you have to trust the client about when it received and when it sent if you want to avoid treating everyone as a cheater and penalizing genuine latency.

If I remember right an anecdote from someone in the trenches was along these lines for a more complicated real time game, though I think the peer comments have the more typical types of problems. I looked for the thread I was reading this in but came up dry, sorry!

Re: Steam games will need to disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

#642
post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Piracy shouldn’t feel like the "premium version" of a product...

Ownership is the premium version of a product. Turns out piracy is sometimes the only ownership option. Everything else is just a subscription, license, service.

It raises questions about how we define access versus ownership in the digital age.

Re: Steam games will need to disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

#643
post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Piracy shouldn’t feel like the "premium version" of a product...

But the reality is that it often is.

I have a friend who first pirates a game and then decides whether to support the game creators or not

Re: Steam games will need to disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

#644

kernel level anticheat is not enough. client inputs have to be trusted, and there is no provenance. the kernel has no visibility of inputs. i’m shipping a 100 player matchmaking game now. clients tick at 360hz, server ticks at 120hz. fair up to 60 ping, which covers entire continents. servers are metal, not vms. epyc 4244p with 2Gbps egress, 1 server per 15 minute game. mitigations=off and nosmt on all clients and th…

[dead]

Re: Steam games will need to disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

#645
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies rule the United States. Companies that do business in China are ruled by China. Therefore, the United States is ruled by China.

The same line of thinking leads me to conclude that the world is ruled by the United States. Can we stop with the nationalistic hyperbole already, and discuss acute issues, instead of vague fingerwaving at the foreign boogieman?

I wasn't being serious.

Sorry to offend your motherland. You deserve all the social credit coming to you.

Re: Steam games will need to disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

#646
post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solution: submit them for an account ban. The games that have the most cheating either: 1. don't do account bans 2. don't limit account creation You can trivially limit account creation by just charging money for the games.

Account bans + community servers don't work either, as the chain of custody for evidence is tainted. I say consteval was caught cheating on the server I run, and that account should be banned. Am I, my server's admin, lying?

Probably you need some kind of "court" system. Or maybe if enough dedicated servers say you're cheating, they just ban you.

Yes this is more effort but from the company's perspective they outsource most of the effort to free labor. It can probably be abused if enough admins from different servers band together though.

Re: Steam games will need to disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

#647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add ‘-nobattleye’ to the Steam command-line launch options and you can play single-player without any installs. (Rockstar really should’ve made this a separate launch option like other games do)

> (Rockstar really should’ve made this a separate launch option like other games do) This is what happens when a producer's/product manager's cherished KPIs come before UX. In their mind, adding a toggle in the launcher would lead to lower engagement and player acquisition. We, the players, fail to recognize how our gaming experience can be enhanced by using social features like leader boards, guilds, or in game chat…

> We, the players, fail to recognize how our gaming experience can be enhanced by using social features like leader boards, guilds, or in game chat. We are not enlightened.

> Think about all the fun and exciting connections you'd miss out on if all the social crap was off by default or in an easily accessible place.

Were you being sarcastic with these lines?

Re: Steam games will need to disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

#648
post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Account bans + community servers don't work either, as the chain of custody for evidence is tainted. I say consteval was caught cheating on the server I run, and that account should be banned. Am I, my server's admin, lying?

Probably you need some kind of "court" system. Or maybe if enough dedicated servers say you're cheating, they just ban you. Yes this is more effort but from the company's perspective they outsource most of the effort to free labor. It can probably be abused if enough admins from different servers band together though.

From a labor exploitation point of view it's really hard to argue that that model is better than kernel-level anticheat.

Re: Steam games will need to disclose kernel-level anti-cheat on store pages

#649
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proven by who and what proof? Because Denuvo is the only one outspoken about how it doesn't impact performance despite all evidence to the contrary and they provide no evidence of their own beyond claiming it doesnt. Then saying they'll prove it doesn't and then backing out of proving it. https://www.resetera.com/threads/irdeto-backtracks-on-plans-...

DRM and anti-cheat aren't the same though. That link is talking about denuvo DRM, not denuvo anti-cheat. Also, just because one implementation impacts performance doesn't mean they all have to.

I'll believe it when Irdeto manages to provide any evidence amounting to more than "Just believe us".

Both the anti-tamper and anti-cheat affect performance and it's incredibly noticeable to anyone who isn't building a new bleeding-edge hardware PC every year or two.

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