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Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

theguardian.com

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Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#641

Post by biscottigelato »

gtvwill wrote: post #94
chad1n wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that every social media/forum/messaging app should be banned then and every CEO in jail. Bad actors will use anything they can.

No because those platforms make the values token effort to curb illegal activity via moderation be it user performed or done by their own employees. Telegram does not do this. Anywhere at all. It's very different.

Apple literally won a case against the FBI on this. That's the US tho of course with First Amendment and everything...

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#642

Post by biscottigelato »

Terr_ wrote: post #284
chucke1992 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Famous quote that if you sacrifice freedom for security, you will get neither.

*sigh* Dude, if it's really that relevant and compelling at least quote it properly . It's 2024, finding and copy-pasting is barely slower than typing a bad paraphrase. > Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- A committee which included Benjamin Franklin _____________ That said, this quote is typically misused, or at best being used way…

He's finding it applicable more than the narrow historical context and using it here. You can disagree with it but its not a 'misuse'

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#643

Post by phkamp »

akira2501 wrote: post #467
sega_sai wrote: post #322

A bunch of people in comments here seem to misunderstand what telegram is. It is not just a messaging app, it is essentially a platform like twitter, with channels, hundreds of thousands of subscribers to those. While I fully support E2EE communication with no back-doors, I think it is perfectly fair for governments to have some control to take down large channels that are clearly against the law. I do not know the t…

> I think it is perfectly fair for governments to have some control to take down large channels that are clearly against the law How is a channel "against the law?" Do you mean access to the channel is creating opportunities for lawlessness that simply wouldn't exist otherwise? I'm not sure the French justice system has demonstrated that it has exhausted all options other than to handcuff a CEO of one particular plat…

It will probably help if people take the time to read Article 8 in the European Declaration of Human Rights:

    Article 8 – Right to respect for private and family life

    1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private
       and family life, his home and his correspondence.

    2. There shall be no interference by a public authority
        with the exercise of this right except such as is in
        accordance with the law and is necessary in a
        democratic society in the interests of national
        security, public safety or the economic well-being
        of the country, for the prevention of disorder or
        crime, for the protection of health or morals, or
        for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.
Thus a channel where terror actions are planned /can be made/ "against the law", but it will not automatically be so, unless there is a specific french law that makes it so.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#644

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

vzaliva wrote: post #261

Well, this is the consequence of Telegram's poor privacy choices. Most chats are not end-to-end encrypted, and they could have access to their content. This makes them liable when they refuse governments' requests for such information. It also raises the question of whether they have given such access to other governments like Russia (coincidentally, Durov was in Baku at the same time Putin was visiting, and there is…

>> could not be forced to wiretap

Couldn't they just quietly release an update, under a threat of a 20y jail time, or just $5 wrench? Any centralized solution is vulnerable. The only real solution is open source serverless p2p network.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#645

Post by pityJuke »

enbugger wrote: post #559
vwkd wrote: post #435

https://x.com/christogrozev/status/1827450631462048023 > I wonder what caught up with him first: the undisturbed sale of hard drugs vIa telegram, or the undisturbed recruitment of freelancers for GRU's terrorist attacks across Europe. Seems there could be some truth to the accusations.

>christogrozev Well, if this guy starts damage controlling, this is definitely a CIA operation

All I’ll say about Grozev is read his Wikipedia. A brilliant journalist. He’s in that video where Navalny calls the guy that poisoned him.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#646

Post by Fnoord »

vessenes wrote: post #285
gtvwill wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But here's the thing. If your app is known to be uses heavily by criminals ranging from Pedo's to drug dealers. You are liable. You run a carrier service. Much like the owner of omegle found out, yes you do have a duty of care. You can't just provide a service that knowingly provides a platform to criminal activity and do jack shit. You live in fairytale land if you think you can.

I upvoted your comment so that it has a bit of visibility because I know some people think this, but I disagree with it, very strongly. First, your analogy is broken -- roads, telephones, pen and paper, motor vehicles all fit your description just as aptly. Second, you propose your preferred moral economy as one that only curtails harms. In fact, you create another harm implementing what you think is right. Reasonabl…

There are entire Telegram groups devoted to publishing CSAM. They're publicly available, not E2E encrypted. Being there in such a channel puts the data on your device, unencrypted. You can report it all you want. Nothing happens. Been there, done it.

It is not just that. Weapons. Drugs. Terrorism [1]. Pornography depicting rape.

[1] Includes accelerationism. France just had a terrorist attack on a synagogue. Germany had one on a city festival. Could be related to either. We don't know!

And yet, with all above being said, as much of a cesspool Telegram is, I much rather have such centralized there than in an application with group E2E encryption. But even then, every once in a while you want to scare the herd to demotivate their (criminal) effort, just be careful not to flock them to a better alternative. Which is a real risk.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#647

Post by ardaoweo »

akira2501 wrote: post #460
I_am_uncreative wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not. The Swedish government is a lot like California's: it's a lot less progressive than it pretends to be.

It's not progressive. It's protectionist. The people they're protecting carry a lot of guilt, and so really like the "progressive" label, it's puts a really nice spin on their particular version of graft and corruption.

Yep. If the Swedish government really cared about children, they would do something to stop the massive underage gang violence problem the country has. 12 year olds being used as hitmen for drug gangs is not normal, yet that's the reality.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#648

Post by croes »

stavros wrote: post #533
nebula8804 wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I like a lot of things the EU is doing, but this spread of surveillance is something I'll always protest against. That's my biggest gripe with the EU, and I hate the Big-Brother-like thinking that gives us the GDPR and also mass surveillance. It's clear the EU's mindset is "nobody can compromise your privacy except me, but it's OK, I'm benevolent", and I'm not a fan of that exceptions.

How is the GDPR big-brother-like-thinking?

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#649

Post by twelve40 »

oska wrote: post #632
twelve40 wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that doesn't matter in the least. It is trivial to kick him off the Western appstores and arrest him in Dubai, so it really doesn't matter. He was allowed to operate - almost certainly in some kind of a deal - until he wasn't.

It's not at all 'trivial' for the EU to have him arrested in Dubai (as opposed to France).

1. Dubai has extradited to the EU in the past, 2. the EU can easily cripple his business and whatever assets he has in his "home" country of France in a couple of weeks. It doesn't even matter if this is about the alleged real criminal activity on Telegram or political persecution like Musk alleges, the moment Durov decided to stop playing ball his life would be miserable no matter his location.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#650

Post by fragmede »

vzaliva wrote: post #620
tryauuum wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This makes them liable when they refuse governments' requests for such information If all the chats are e2e encrypted then the government will arrest you for designing chats in such a way that a backdoor is impossible Like we say in Russia, "as long as we have a man we can find a law to imprison him"

Well, maybe in russia but not in the USA. At least not yet. Check the history of PGP as an example of strong encryption the government was not happy about.

depends on the company you keep. it's been that way in the US for a while.
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