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CrowdStrike Update: Windows Bluescreen and Boot Loops

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Re: CrowdStrike Update: Windows Bluescreen and Boot Loops

#641

The thing that amazes me is how they've rolled out such a buggy change at such a scale. I would assume that for such critical systems, there would be a gradual rollout policy, so that not everything goes down at once.

Lack of gradual, health mediated rollout is absolutely the core issue here. False positive signatures, crash inducing blocks, etc will always slip through testing at some % no matter how good testing is. The necessary defense in depth here is to roll out ALL changes (binaries, policies, etc) in a staggered fashion with some kind of health checks in between (did > 10% of endpoints the change went to go down and stay down right after the change was pushed?).

Crowdstrike bit my company with a false positive that severely broke the entire production fleet because they pushed the change everywhere all at once instead of staggering it out. We pushed them hard in the RCA to implement staggered deployments of their changes. They sent back a 50 page document explaining why they couldn't which basically came down to "that would slow down blocks of true positives" - which is technically true but from followup conversations quite clear that is was not the real reason. The real reason is that they weren't ready to invest the engineering effort into doing this.

You can stagger changes out within a reasonable timeframe - the blocks already take hours/days/weeks to come up with, taking an extra hour or two to trickle the change out gradually with some basic sanity checks between staggers is a tradeoff everyone would embrace in order to avoid the disaster we're living through today.

Need a reset on their balance point of security:uptime.

Re: CrowdStrike Update: Windows Bluescreen and Boot Loops

#642

The thing that amazes me is how they've rolled out such a buggy change at such a scale. I would assume that for such critical systems, there would be a gradual rollout policy, so that not everything goes down at once.

In 2012 a local bank rolled out an update that basically took all of their customer services offline. Couldn't access your money. Took them a month to get things working again.

Re: CrowdStrike Update: Windows Bluescreen and Boot Loops

#644
I know there's a better word to be used here, but what initially looked like a massive cyberattack turning out to be a massive defender foot-broom is chefs kiss.

I saw it was Windows and went to bed. What a great feeling.

I'm sorry to those of you dealing with this. I've had to wipe 1200 computers over a weekend in a past life when a virus got in.

Did I receive any appreciation? Nope. I was literally sleeping under cubicle desks bringing up isolated rows one by one. I switched everything in that call center to linux after that. Ironically it turns out it was a senior engineers ssh key that got leaked somehow and was used to get in and dig around servers in our datacenter outside of my network. My filesystem logging (in Windows, coincidentally) alerted me.

IT is fun.

Re: CrowdStrike Update: Windows Bluescreen and Boot Loops

#645
post #349

So CrowdStrike is deployed as third party software into the critical path of mission critical systems and then left to update itself. It's easy to blame CrowdStrike but that seems too easy on both the orgs that do this but also the upstream forces that compel them to do it. My org which does mission critical healthcare just deployed ZScaler on every computer which is now in the critical path of every computer startin…

> So we need to hold regulatory bodies accountable as well - when they frame regulation such that organisations are cornered into this they get to be part of the culpability here too.

Replacing common-law liability with prescriptive regulation is one of the main drivers of this problem today. Instead of holding people accountable for the actual consequences of their decisions, we increasingly attempt to preempt their decisions, which is the very thing that incentivizes cargo-cult "checkbox compliance".

It motivates people who otherwise have skin in the game and immediate situational awareness to outsource their responsibility to systems of generalized rules, which by definition are incapable of dealing effectively with outliers.

Re: CrowdStrike Update: Windows Bluescreen and Boot Loops

#646
I'm confused as to how this issue is so widespread in the first place. I'm unfamiliar with how Crowdstrike works, do organizations really have no control over when these updates occur? Why can't these airlines just apply the updates in dev first? Is it the organizations fault or does Crowdstrike just deliver updates like this and there's no control? If that's just how they do it, how do they get away with this?

Re: CrowdStrike Update: Windows Bluescreen and Boot Loops

#647
post #349

So CrowdStrike is deployed as third party software into the critical path of mission critical systems and then left to update itself. It's easy to blame CrowdStrike but that seems too easy on both the orgs that do this but also the upstream forces that compel them to do it. My org which does mission critical healthcare just deployed ZScaler on every computer which is now in the critical path of every computer startin…

It's VERY easy to blame CrowdStrike and companies like them as they are the one LOBBYING for those checkboxes. Both zscaler and Crowdstrike spent 500K last year lobbying.

Re: CrowdStrike Update: Windows Bluescreen and Boot Loops

#648

How long before companies start consciously de-risking by replacing general-purpose systems like Windows with newer systems with smaller attack surfaces? Why does an airline need to use Windows at all for operations? From what I’ve seen, their backend systems are still running on mainframes. The terminals are accessed on PCs running Windows, but those could trivially be replaced with iPadOS devices that are more lock…

Never if they can help it and have heard of Santander

Re: CrowdStrike Update: Windows Bluescreen and Boot Loops

#650
post #538

Crowdstrike did this to our production linux fleet back on April 19th, and I've been dying to rant about it. The short version was: we're a civic tech lab, so we have a bunch of different production websites made at different times on different infrastructure. We run Crowdstrike provided by our enterprise. Crowdstrike pushed an update on a Friday evening that was incompatible with up-to-date Debian stable. So we patc…

You should send this to every tech reporter you like.
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