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Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

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Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#641

Post by criddell »

internetter wrote: post #461
criddell wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's too early to draw any conclusions. It's going to take some time before you can definitely say if consumers are better off.

Just out of curiosity, in your eyes, how could this regulation not be good for consumers?

Different people have different things they are worried about. I’m personally concerned about Chrome’s dominance and I think iOS not allowing alternative browsers is the only thing holding back Chromium’s total victory.

I know some here would welcome a single browser target, but I personally think it concentrates too much power with Google.

Privacy is a related concern. I think it’s only going to take one killer app to really launch an alternative App Store. A few years ago when Fortnite was super popular, Fortnite fans would have installed an Epic store in a heart beat if it meant they could play Fortnite.

Once an alternative App Store has significant power, I think they are going to be able to start eroding some of the iOS privacy guarantees. That will be done in the name of consumer interest - things are cheaper here because we can give you better, targeted ads! - but in the long run I don’t think teenagers getting some special Fortnite loot is in their best interests if it means tighter surveillance.

I could also see school districts and/or testing organizations require installations of super invasive anti-cheating apps. There have already been cases of school districts getting caught spying on kids with school issued laptop webcams.

In the end, Apple’s stubbornness and greed brought this on. If they would have been more reasonable, I think both the company and their users would be a lot better off.

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#642

Post by leptons »

fragmede wrote: post #639
leptons wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the original iPhone itself was a technical marvel Apple didn't invent anything in the original iPhone, except the software. And the first version was really lacking and very buggy. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/steve-jobs-rigged-first-iphon... Other phones that predated the iPhone release had more capabilities and more software. There was nothing really "marvelous" about the original iPhone, it was many years behin…

You're right. The "technical marvel" of the iPhone was the size of its battery. Treo's and Blackberry's were already there with the hardware. But the software. Apple's pretty good with software, so their implementation also made a difference.

The iPhone had a non-removable battery, which was a step backwards for consumers. And there was nothing special about it.

At the time I had an HTC TyTN 2 phone that did everything the iPhone could do and more, and had a removable battery, about the same size as the battery inside the iPhone 1. If you look at photos of the TyTN 2 battery, and the iPhone 1 battery, they are very close to the same size.

There was very little difference between those batteries. The TyTN 2 had a 1350mA hour lithium battery. The iPhone 1 had a 1400mA hour lithium battery. Practically no difference there in size or capacity.

So, no, the iPhone's battery was not a "technical marvel" any more than other phones of that era.

And in fact Apple's was a step back by being non-removable. I absolutely loved having a removable battery, because I could bring 2 or 3 with me on a long trip and never have to charge the phone. Apple was less functional in that way.

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#643

Post by petre »

roenxi wrote: post #604
ReflectedImage wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Authoritarian states are a very ineffective model. A leader can lead their small band of merry man to rob the highway alright. But it doesn't scale up to larger groups of people. If you talk to the CEOs of large companies or miltary leaders, you find that they are unable to exert effective control of their organisations. The organisation will do whatever it wants to do. The leader can make their command but at every…

> Democracy is a lot more scary than Authoritarism from a military perspective. Yes. But note that armies are a hierarchy with little flexibility once orders start coming down. When democracies want to achieve outcomes they set up (subordinate) dictatorships. The army does not stop to vote in the middle of a war. Indeed, sticking to the Ukraine example, they suspended elections as I assume is usual in war. Democracy…

> Since authoritarianism can only do one thing at once, generally they have a weak military at the expense of stability.

I wouldn't say Nazi Germany had a weak military. They had problems with too many tank models (to appease Hitler?) but they only begain losing the war when everyone else that was against them got their act together. And of course, invading Russia. That one was stupid.

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#644

Post by evilduck »

beeboobaa wrote: post #628
evilduck wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why would you build a native Android app if PWAs work better? There’s way more web developers than Android developers, and you would avoid the Play Store fees. Sound cheaper to me. What part of iOS is invalidating the value proposition for Android here? You also didn’t answer what is missing. What is missing? What’s this insurmountable problem that’s solved everywhere else? Why is janky tooling attributable to App…

Try reading my post again, maybe? The tooling is pretty janky because no one does this yet. No point to torture yourself with janky tooling when you only get to target android anyway...

Again, not answering a thing but a making up a claim you aren't willing or able to support. How is this supposed web development tooling jankiness attributable to Apple today? Feature detection is a solved problem. What tooling are you even referring to? You aren't even trying to support this with a concrete claim. This is nonsense and you know it.

PWAs are the perfect scapegoat of infinite nebulous whining. The definition of a progressive web app might as well be "whatever Chrome has but Safari doesn't, no matter what year it is or how those features change, and no matter how terrible of an idea they might be even on Chrome".

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#645

Post by fragmede »

leptons wrote: post #642
fragmede wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right. The "technical marvel" of the iPhone was the size of its battery. Treo's and Blackberry's were already there with the hardware. But the software. Apple's pretty good with software, so their implementation also made a difference.

The iPhone had a non-removable battery, which was a step backwards for consumers. And there was nothing special about it. At the time I had an HTC TyTN 2 phone that did everything the iPhone could do and more, and had a removable battery, about the same size as the battery inside the iPhone 1. If you look at photos of the TyTN 2 battery, and the iPhone 1 battery, they are very close to the same size. There was very l…

I can't comment on the TyTN2, but I'm thinking back to Blackberry employees (CEO?) saying

> "The iPhone "couldn’t do what [Apple was] demonstrating without an insanely power hungry processor, it must have terrible battery life," Shacknews poster Kentor heard from his former colleagues of the time. "Imagine their surprise [at RIM] when they disassembled an iPhone for the first time and found that the phone was battery with a tiny logic board strapped to it."

https://www.redmondpie.com/blackberry-maker-rim-thought-appl...

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#646

Post by internetter »

criddell wrote: post #641
internetter wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just out of curiosity, in your eyes, how could this regulation not be good for consumers?

Different people have different things they are worried about. I’m personally concerned about Chrome’s dominance and I think iOS not allowing alternative browsers is the only thing holding back Chromium’s total victory. I know some here would welcome a single browser target, but I personally think it concentrates too much power with Google. Privacy is a related concern. I think it’s only going to take one killer app…

Thank You for not regurgitating the same "mwahh all apps will be on 3rd party app stores!! terrible!!" argument I keep seeing. These are some solid points.

I believe that overall the DMA is a good thing, there are some things I would change, but this gives me new perspective on the matter. Cheers.

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#647

Post by leptons »

fragmede wrote: post #645
leptons wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iPhone had a non-removable battery, which was a step backwards for consumers. And there was nothing special about it. At the time I had an HTC TyTN 2 phone that did everything the iPhone could do and more, and had a removable battery, about the same size as the battery inside the iPhone 1. If you look at photos of the TyTN 2 battery, and the iPhone 1 battery, they are very close to the same size. There was very l…

I can't comment on the TyTN2, but I'm thinking back to Blackberry employees (CEO?) saying > "The iPhone "couldn’t do what [Apple was] demonstrating without an insanely power hungry processor, it must have terrible battery life," Shacknews poster Kentor heard from his former colleagues of the time. "Imagine their surprise [at RIM] when they disassembled an iPhone for the first time and found that the phone was battery…

That's your rebuttal?? The engineers at blackberry were pretty inept and stuck in the past, which is why they're no longer in business. That article contributes nothing towards your claim that the first iPhone was a "technical marvel". I cited an example of a phone released in 2007 that had the same battery tech that Apple had. Was that also a "technical marvel"? And the model before it and the one before that? Apple didn't do anything groundbreaking in the first iPhone except maybe a capacitive touchscreen, which wasn't anything they invented, they were around long before the iphone.

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#648

Post by stefanlindbohm »

magicloop wrote: post #607

What has happened here is all about the personalities involved, not a business strategy, not a legal strategy. It is "Forming, Storming, Norming, ... " (Tuckman's stages of group development) Forming = setting up the technical and business solution for DMA Storming = arguing due to the newly experienced dynamics of power/control Norming = CEO stepping in the get a resolved balance in what to do next Phil Schiller wou…

There might be parallells with group development research or terms used, but neither Tuckman’s stages, the research it’s based on, or later research in the area apply outside of the internal dynamics of individual working groups.

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#649

Post by veunes »

astlouis44 wrote: post #41

Amazing how fast this decision was reversed. It's truly awesome to see regulators standing up to walled gardens. This will greatly benefit both developers and consumers.

It reminds me of like two kids having a huge argument and regulators are their parents

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#650

Post by mike_d »

freedomben wrote: post #436
ben_w wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what I'm saying. I can't take both of them on faith alone , because at least one of them must be wrong. I'm not qualified to decide between them, so I should weight them equally. Public statements from the parties, or fans of the parties, are reasonable to suspect of being tactical with the truth even when no falsehoods are stated, rather than giving a complete picture.

FWIW I found your parent comment to be quite clear. I think it's only hard for people with a black & white/good & evil view on the world to consider that maybe both parties in a conflict might not be entirely pure/perfect.

It was quite clear, just a bad take. If you have a coworker Bob that lies about everything at work, you can't use that as justification to treat Fred like he is always lying with no evidence.

Epic makes false statements because they have a megalomaniac CEO running the show, Apple on the other hand generally tries to avoid legal and PR troubles and has multiple teams of lawyers who review every public statement on an issue.

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