Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

cpj.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

641–650 of 968 posts

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#641

Post by GordonS »

rendall wrote: post #630
GordonS wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is an enemy who would kill more than 10,000 if it could And yet, it's Israel that has killed 30-50k... so far . > who deliberately positions military hardware such as rocket launchers in and around civilians and civilian infrastructure Gaza is a very dense, urban area, so it's kind of unavoidable. And you know as well as I do that these "rockets" are barely more than overgrown fireworks - they are mostly symbo…

> Gaza is a very dense, urban area, so it's kind of unavoidable This is why Hamas hides weapons inside of schools, mosques and hospitals, according to you?

That is not at all what I said - are you commenting in good faith? We've also seen no credible evidence that Hamas hides weapons inside of schools, mosques or hospitals.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#642

Post by reducesuffering »

prmoustache wrote: post #483
EvgeniyZh wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the premise that Hamas wouldn't be able to fight open battles. But it doesn't make using human shields (directly by putting military infrastructure in civilian ones or indirectly by not distinguishing themselves) not their fault. The death of human shields is their responsibility, and their alone (without getting into details of which part of dead civilians is actually due to being human shields). Of cou…

No, the responsibility is always on who is shooting at civilians. If you can't beat the Hamas in Gaza without shooting civilians, don't shoot, retreat in Israel and focus on protecting Israel.

[flagged]

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#643

Post by GordonS »

gryzzly wrote: post #635
GordonS wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean this part? > what interest Palestinians have in regard to Israelis from your point of view? I'm not sure I understand the question? Is it "how to Palestinians feel about Israelis?". If so, I don't know, but I can imagine how I might feel if I'd been dehumanised my entitre life; lived under brutal occupation/blockade my entire life, seen siblings carted off to be tortured in Israeli dungeons, had my father…

[flagged]

You specifically asked me for a response about "one side" - I respond, and am accused of bias. I just looked at your post history, and I regret engaging with you, as well, talk about hypocrisy.

This is not Reddit - do better.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#644

Post by gryzzly »

GordonS wrote: post #632
gryzzly wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can you link me to such polls?

Sure: https://en-social-sciences.tau.ac.il/sites/socsci-english.ta... . This is a very interesting poll, and it clearly shows that Arabs want peace, while Israeli Jews do not . In reference to the same poll: "A vast majority of Jewish Israelis believe that the IDF is using an appropriate amount or not enough force" [0]. "Nearly 58 percent of respondents in one poll said they think the IDF is using “too little firepow…

[flagged]

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#645

Post by gryzzly »

GordonS wrote: post #632
gryzzly wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can you link me to such polls?

Sure: https://en-social-sciences.tau.ac.il/sites/socsci-english.ta... . This is a very interesting poll, and it clearly shows that Arabs want peace, while Israeli Jews do not . In reference to the same poll: "A vast majority of Jewish Israelis believe that the IDF is using an appropriate amount or not enough force" [0]. "Nearly 58 percent of respondents in one poll said they think the IDF is using “too little firepow…

[flagged]

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#646

Post by GordonS »

rendall wrote: post #628
GordonS wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is an enemy who would kill more than 10,000 if it could And yet, it's Israel that has killed 30-50k... so far . > who deliberately positions military hardware such as rocket launchers in and around civilians and civilian infrastructure Gaza is a very dense, urban area, so it's kind of unavoidable. And you know as well as I do that these "rockets" are barely more than overgrown fireworks - they are mostly symbo…

> Except, thats not really true, is it? Hamas have been openly saying for several years now that they have no beef with people of the Jewish faith, they just want their homes back. No, that is not what they have been saying. That's what you have been hearing, but they have been saying they want the area to be under Muslim control. They could have had their homes back decades ago if they accepted Israeli rule. No. Whe…

> They could have had their homes back decades ago if they accepted Israeli rule

"accepted Israeli rule?!". If Russia decides to occupy your country, would you be so accepting?!

Never mind the fact that the West Bank shows exactly what happens when you "accept Israeli rule" - living under a brutal, dehumanising apartheid regime.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#647

Post by tsimionescu »

jdietrich wrote: post #583
tsimionescu wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We actually have very clear examples from history of how to turn an enemy into a friend: the Marshall plan and the similar levels of aid that the USA poured into post-nazi Germany, post-fascist Italy, post-imperial Japan. That turned War-torn bitter enemies into some of the staunchest US allies today. Given Israel's position of power, they can and should be doing this. However, Israeli politicians just don't want thi…

Germany, Italy and Japan unconditionally surrendered. The Marshall Plan didn't create peace, it rebuilt societies once peace had been established. Do we imagine that Germany would have agreed to peace in 1944 or 1939 if only the Allies had given enough aid?

Palestine has been under de facto Israeli control for more than 50 years. Israel won this war a long, long time ago.

And instead of helping to build a place for Palestinians to live, they kept them under direct military occupation until 2005, then under blockade plus air raids (in retaliation for Palestinian attacks, but usually ending up with a 10:1 ratio of dead Palestinians for each killed Israeli citizen).

What they're seeing now is exactly what the French and British discovered after WW1: if you try to humiliate and subjugate a whole country, even after you have just decisively won a war against them, you'll only radicalize them, ending in a bigger war (thankfully, Palestine doesn't have the resources to become Nazi Germany even if they want to).

The only solutions to have long lasting peace are either (a) investment and openness, or (b) complete annihilation or something close to it. I'm advocating as much as I can for (a).

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#648

Post by gryzzly »

GordonS wrote: post #618
rendall wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be correct were the war about retaliation. It is not retaliation. It is a military operation. It is a military operation to remove an implacable enemy who deliberately positions military hardware such as rocket launchers in and around civilians and civilian infrastructure. This is an enemy who would kill more than 30,000 Israeli citizens if it could. Hamas would kill every single Israeli if it acquired the…

> This is an enemy who would kill more than 10,000 if it could And yet, it's Israel that has killed 30-50k... so far . > who deliberately positions military hardware such as rocket launchers in and around civilians and civilian infrastructure Gaza is a very dense, urban area, so it's kind of unavoidable. And you know as well as I do that these "rockets" are barely more than overgrown fireworks - they are mostly symbo…

[flagged]

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#649

Post by gryzzly »

GordonS wrote: post #641
rendall wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gaza is a very dense, urban area, so it's kind of unavoidable This is why Hamas hides weapons inside of schools, mosques and hospitals, according to you?

That is not at all what I said - are you commenting in good faith? We've also seen no credible evidence that Hamas hides weapons inside of schools, mosques or hospitals.

[flagged]

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#650

Post by GordonS »

gryzzly wrote: post #645
GordonS wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure: https://en-social-sciences.tau.ac.il/sites/socsci-english.ta... . This is a very interesting poll, and it clearly shows that Arabs want peace, while Israeli Jews do not . In reference to the same poll: "A vast majority of Jewish Israelis believe that the IDF is using an appropriate amount or not enough force" [0]. "Nearly 58 percent of respondents in one poll said they think the IDF is using “too little firepow…

[flagged]

> that and the fact over 500 Israeli soldiers were killed by Hamas in Gaza so far

Israel are the occupying, attacking force, and have massacred thousands of civilians. You want me to care about war criminals, who routinely broadcast their depraved attrocities on TikTok? Come on now.

Post reply on HN