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Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

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Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#641

Post by pc86 »

wombatpm wrote: post #295
Runways wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Texan here. Your ad hominem attack is BS. Our house prices, North of Dallas and deep in the suburbs - far from the bay areas and Seattles, have doubled. That includes my home. People in our profession usually have to live by big cities, like Dallas. But the homes are ridiculously priced and it's insane. My juniors have no hope of owning a home that is big enough to raise a family without years of saving. And they're…

Dual income has its own set of problems when it comes time for kids. Lose an income or pay for child care.

My wife and I are expecting. Daycare is expensive, but it's only an outrageous expense if you have two people making up to about 3x minimum wage. Below that, it makes sense (at least in our area) to have one person stay home. But the cheapest state-regulated, licensed daycares are around $1500/mo for full-day infant care.

$18k/yr is a lot to spend on anything when you're making $20/hr for sure, but if you've got two professional people making $75-100k/yr each it becomes a very manageable expense and nobody considers staying home to save that.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#642

Post by KptMarchewa »

geff82 wrote: post #486
kelnos wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could absolutely afford to have children, but have chosen not to. The main reason is that I just don't feel "called" to be a parent. When I think about (and see, from others I know who have kids) the amount of work, and complete shift in lifestyle, it takes to raise a child, I get completely turned off by the idea. If I had a kid, I'm sure I'd love them, and derive joy from them, but I don't believe the trade off i…

"The amount of work".... oh dear. As if caring for other people is only work. From what will you get distracted by having other people around you (kids)? From Instragram? Cycling? Reading books? What intensely important things do you have to do that deserve no distraction? Having kids is not work. It is not only joy either. It is just the natural way of being a human. The - natural - way - of - being - a - human!!! N…

Natural way of being a human is shitting under a tree and sleeping on this tree, and certainly isn't writing a comment on this site. I couldn't care less of arguments based on some kind of naturalistic fallacy.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#643

Post by postexitus »

TomK32 wrote: post #620

My daughter is an only child but has eight cousins (that I know of, most are in her age range) but barely spends time with them. She's not missing out on anything because she has a large circle of friends her age, be it from the public playground when they only started walking, kindergarden or now the first three years in school. It takes some effort as a parent and tbh dumping-the-child-at-her-friends-and-vice-versa…

I am not sure if friends replace (at least my experience of) cousins. With couisins, you spend days, nights, sleepovers sometimes a whole summer together. You share grandparents, your parents are siblings - you never leave each other's side. It's like sibling minus one. With friends, yes you get very good friends and they are your "chosen family" but you don't spend half as much time together even to the best of your efforts (unless living next door) at the same time, things force you to fall apart - moving, schools, preferences etc.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#644

Post by trashtester »

dghughes wrote: post #604
datavirtue wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked with plenty of people who have no visible significant other, even. It's fucking weird. Thirty+ (40+) year old guys living alone in huge houses, never married. I'm guessing they are just hitting up sex workers. These are smart, well adjusted people who would have made good fathers.

I'm one of those. Very shy even into my late 20s. Then my Dad got sick so I was his support for nearly 20 years. Life went by and now it's too late to have kids. No woman of child bearing age wants to date a middle-aged man 10 years her senior. So really why bother even trying to have a relationship at this point?

Plenty of women wants to date a guy 10, 20 or even 30 years her senior. Especially if he's financially secure, wants a stable relationship, is reasonably healthy and treats her well.

If you have your life in order, all you have to do is to look in the right places. Those places exist in any country, but if you're a man like that and look on dating sites for Thailand or the Philippines, you will find 10 women that want to marry you within an hour or two.

However, if you're broke, don't have a decent job and have serious health problems, you may indeed by out of luck.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#645

Post by Sakos »

TomK32 wrote: post #620

My daughter is an only child but has eight cousins (that I know of, most are in her age range) but barely spends time with them. She's not missing out on anything because she has a large circle of friends her age, be it from the public playground when they only started walking, kindergarden or now the first three years in school. It takes some effort as a parent and tbh dumping-the-child-at-her-friends-and-vice-versa…

As an elder millenial in my 30s, I also barely had any contact to my cousins. I think this isn't a recent development. My dad had a lot closer ties to his cousins and it showed in all the family meetings/reunions over the years. These people were somehow always present in my younger life. It was family. And though I've had plenty of friends over the years, I do think that ever-present network of familial ties is missing and that maybe we've lost something different that can't be replaced by friendships.

I don't know if I'm worse off in any quantifiable way and I don't know if it's worse this way. I just wonder if there's something I might be missing out on by not having that familial social network on top of my current social network, which is admittedly quite small and limited compared to when I was young. Maybe I'd feel less lonely and a bit less adrift if I had a larger family that I had close ties to and could fall back on.

A "family reunion" now is just me and my siblings. Down from 10-20 people to 3. That does make me sad to think about now.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#646

Post by jmathai »

TomK32 wrote: post #620

My daughter is an only child but has eight cousins (that I know of, most are in her age range) but barely spends time with them. She's not missing out on anything because she has a large circle of friends her age, be it from the public playground when they only started walking, kindergarden or now the first three years in school. It takes some effort as a parent and tbh dumping-the-child-at-her-friends-and-vice-versa…

My older kids are 11 and 13. My experience differs. My wife and I moved away from family before having children. Our kids had plenty of friends they could play with. It felt transient though - perhaps because we lived in a transient area (SF Bay Area). Friends would come and go.

We moved back to be closer to family last summer. And, for us, the difference was stark. The relationships between family and friends are different. Both important.

But friends are replaceable…as terrible as that may sound. And one difference I think we (and others) didn’t realize is that family is much much much more permanent. You may not enjoy their company as much - but they will be there for many decades. And it turns out that’s very important for us.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#647

Post by mdorazio »

lolinder wrote: post #140
bongodongobob wrote: post #75

You're baffled people aren't having kids? What bubble do you live in? People straight up can't afford housing much less children. The avg American is completely priced out of owning a home right now. Edit: the replies - y'all are out of touch. Visit an average family in the Midwest with a household income of < $100k/yr that doesn't own a home yet.

This is unnecessarily confrontational and inaccurate. According to census.gov, the current national homeownership rate is hovering at about 66%, which is about the same rate that it's been (+/- 3%) since they started tracking in 1964 [0][1]. This isn't restricted to old people either: 49% of 30 to 34 year olds and 58% of 35 to 39 year olds owned a home in Q4 2023 [2]. There are certainly regional differences in housi…

Ownership is not affordability, which is the point of the parent poster that you're ignoring entirely. Recent headline: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/homes-for-sale-affordable-housi...

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#648

Post by geff82 »

surgical_fire wrote: post #579
geff82 wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The amount of work".... oh dear. As if caring for other people is only work. From what will you get distracted by having other people around you (kids)? From Instragram? Cycling? Reading books? What intensely important things do you have to do that deserve no distraction? Having kids is not work. It is not only joy either. It is just the natural way of being a human. The - natural - way - of - being - a - human!!! N…

> "The amount of work".... oh dear. As if caring for other people is only work. From what will you get distracted by having other people around you (kids)? From Instragram? Cycling? Reading books? What if they prefer Instagram, Cycling and Reading Books rather than raising children? Why are you so concerned about other people's lifestyles? Are you going to pay their rent or help them with their chores? I decided to h…

No children: no society. Or: a very old, geriatric, undynamic, fearful society with no innovation. Simple.

What happened that after a few hundred thousand years of having families we suddendly need to be "absolutely certain" to have kids? Human nature is the EXACT other way round. What we currently see is an outgrow of pure hedonism. It kills societies (literally, at least in the sense of "no new life").

Concerning "being fully aware that our previous lifestyle would be no more": this in itself partly shows the problem. So our casual life choices are in such a way that it is completely uncompatible with having a family? Sure - when you're 20, you might not be ready. But do we, as a society, promote lifestyles that even when you're 30 are impossible to combine with having kids? Then maybe our lifestyle as a society is wrong, what we tell ourselves to be "good life" is wrong.

And then again... maybe we take having kids too seriously? I really can't say having missed out on much since having kids (and no, we have no nanny). We simply did the stuff people "fear". We went out for dinner together two weeks after our first one was born (together with the baby). And we repeated, until today. We went on those 10 hour flights. We explored foreign countries. We visit museums with modern art. We spent months abroad. Is it always easy? Nope. But it was, overall, not too different from the life before. Kids get used to stuff, parents get used to stuff. Most of us can do it if we let go of the instagrammy thought of having to be perfect. And this is how society always was and always will be.

EDIT: In the current medical climate where child mortality is very, very low, of course, as a society we CAN afford to have less kids overall. And as long there are a few people who LIKE to have 3 or more kids, we can afford to have some more people having no kids as all. I don't promote growing society ad infinitum. But having sub-replacement birth rates will NOT make our countries better for sure (and the economy is my very LAST concern). France 10-15 years ago can lead as an example with a healthy rate of births, wealth and personal freedom.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#649

Post by tedajax »

christophilus wrote: post #598
bongodongobob wrote: post #75

You're baffled people aren't having kids? What bubble do you live in? People straight up can't afford housing much less children. The avg American is completely priced out of owning a home right now. Edit: the replies - y'all are out of touch. Visit an average family in the Midwest with a household income of < $100k/yr that doesn't own a home yet.

My parents had three kids while living on a single salary that put us below into the poverty line for the first half of my childhood. I had a very happy childhood. Everything I had (even my underwear!) was a handmedown. I’m not saying it’s easy, but it’s possible. It’s a matter of priorities. I’m glad my parents made the hard choices they did.

The point is people watched their parents struggle to raise kids and decide they aren't going to do that to themselves or their hypothetical kids.

There is more to do in a life than work and raise children.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#650

Post by Retric »

TomK32 wrote: post #620

My daughter is an only child but has eight cousins (that I know of, most are in her age range) but barely spends time with them. She's not missing out on anything because she has a large circle of friends her age, be it from the public playground when they only started walking, kindergarden or now the first three years in school. It takes some effort as a parent and tbh dumping-the-child-at-her-friends-and-vice-versa…

There’s very specific safety features that have reduced the number of kids killed by cars. Backup cameras for example where mandated specificity due to demonstrated safety benefits.

People vastly overestimate how dangerous letting their kids out to play is and underestimate how beneficial it is. There’s real health benefits to running around outside which means limiting them to specific after school activities also has negative consequences.

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