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Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

nytimes.com

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Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#641

Post by woowoowoot »

nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

Managers will never be honest. Managers are modern practitioners of Taylorism(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_management). They have to see you as a number and a resource in order to do their jobs and fit in the hierarchy. Thats why you never trust them and always reverse manage them.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#642

Post by nine_k »

astronads wrote: post #435
twh270 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Your job is not safe" does not mean you should do everything possible to keep your job -- allowing yourself to be unfairly exploited and abused. It means that you need to be responsible for yourself, and not allow thoughts like "I'm a valuable employee", or "I have too much seniority", or "my manager and I get along great" to convince you management won't lay you off or fire you or that they owe you anything. As oth…

This is good and realistic advice. Companies exist to make profit and returns for their investors/shareholders and ultimately they will do what this necessary to make that happen. Layoffs are just another (unfortunate) business transaction. I was once in a meeting with an SVP who was going over what he was going to say in an upcoming all-hands meeting. He kept referring to employees as “resources” and I told him he s…

A company is not your friend, or your enemy. It's a machine. See it as such, use it as such.

A particular person above you in the management chain may actually be your friend. It does not mean that that person would be able to protect you from a layoff; that could be a conflict of interest. That person might give you an earlier warning so that you could start looking around ahead of time. That person could give you a glowing review and references for prospective employers. That person might introduce you to someone who might be interested in hiring you. But that person operates the machine, and plays by the rules of the machine, to which you have agreed when you have signed your offer.

Build good relationships with coworkers; this can be helpful, and is just more pleasant. But don't try to build a relationship with a company; you can't.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#643

Post by ashconnor »

gregors wrote: post #635
lokar wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did over 400 interviews working there, and many hundreds more serving on hiring committees. I never gave a leetcode interview, and saw only a modest amount of them in committee. “It’s all leetcode BS” makes a great offhand d complaint but was not the actual truth.

I personally like the story of the hiring committee that refused to hire themselves https://youtu.be/r8RxkpUvxK0?t=531

I watched this a while ago and thought I’m clearly too dumb to work at Google because I’m not going to come up with convex hull algorithms in an interview room.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#644

Post by aramova »

nathan_douglas wrote: post #638
SirMaster wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Your job is NOT safe. Maybe your job(s). But there are certainly companies out there that actually care about the welfare of their employees. Usually family owned and such. That's where I choose to work and they have always taken care of my needs and listened to me. I never really understood why people have such a desire to work for these big companies that don't care about you. I guess it's just different strokes..…

I definitely try to pick jobs based on vibe, but that's still not 100% safe. I adore my current employer. Best place I've ever worked. But we're contractors, and my team's contract just ended unexpectedly. I trust they respect me enough to rotate me to another team, but I gotta sweat bullets and send out résumés nonetheless.

> my team's contract just ended unexpectedly.

Is it really a contract if it can end unexpectedly? I know it is, but really the original purpose of a contract is to set the terms and conditions, so nothing was surprise when it happened.

We really need a better term for these one sided work agreements.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#645

Post by aelzeiny »

asylteltine wrote: post #573
dodiggity32 wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the code be subpar? Is a google employee in US somehow more competent than the one in India? What you are thinking about was outsourcing which is very different than Google hiring in India. Just because you are paid more you are not a ‘better’ programmer

Quality from India is awful. Both from functionality and just… caring. They don’t really care as much it’s always just good enough. They are generally very difficult to work with.

Give Indians US salaries and see if they're "difficult to work with".

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#646

Post by black_puppydog »

nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

> SWEs in particularly no longer live in a world where you can expect to have a rewarding career working for >=5 years at any given firm

"no longer" -> this might be the time to seriously talk about unionization. Programmers used to have a huge advantage at the bargaining table, going in as an individual. If parent is correct (I tend to agree) these days are over and they're not coming back. In that case, collective bargaining promises better results.

I see a lot more unionization efforts in software lately. Maybe it's just my own confirmation bias but maybe it's just that others are coming to the same conclusions.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#647

Post by wnolens »

profstasiak wrote: post #323
billy99k wrote: post #105

This is why I hate working as a regular salaried employee. After this happened to me a few years after college, I spent over a decade building up a consulting business. I always keep multiple clients at the same time and I'm not devasted if one chooses not to renew my contract.

anything you recommend to read on how to start consulting practice?

One anecdote: contracts fell on my lap, via natural conversations with friends who work as full-timers in the industry (their employers needed help).

So in my case, it was having a network and connecting across it regularly.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#648

Post by tomComb »

throwaway13394 wrote: post #442

I work in Core Eng at google. Woke up this morning and saw my director - who we all loved and had been at Google for 20 years - is gone. One concerning thing that I haven't seen reported is that my leadership chain is almost entirely Indian, all the way up. And they've announced that they are starting to offshore entire core products to India, primarily in bangalore IIUC.

> almost entirely Indian, all the way up.

Only one of the trio that effectively run the company are Indian

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#649

Post by aaronsimpson »

mc32 wrote: post #596
HDThoreaun wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation ticked up to 3.4%, it's not through the roof. Real wages are up. The economy is absolutely doing very well for some people.

Are you guys and gals checking your grocery receipts? Eggs have doubled over the last two years. Milk, meats, fruits and veggies... I can't think of much that hasn't gone up at a higher rate than before the pandemic. I applaud the Fed for hiking interest rates, free money can't go on forever if you want to avoid the fate of Argentina, but c'mon, the economy is not good. It's not bad, but it's not good. Laid off peopl…

This is often brought up and I'm fully willing to be shown that I'm out of touch, but where are people buying these supposed "expensive" eggs and groceries? I'll literally share my last grocery receipt (admittedly smaller due to already having most ingredients):

- Chicken thighs $6.24

- Ground beef $5.97

- Feminine items $9.97

- Bell pepper $0.82

- Lettuce $1.77

- Celery $2.98

- Shrimp $7.92

- Tortilla soup $3.82

- Yogurt (single) $0.64

- Diced tomatoes $0.96

- Black beans $0.82

- Yogurt (pack) $2.47

- Andouille sausage $3.94

Total: $51.24

Sampling from other receipts I've got milk at $3.33, lunchmeat $4.46, my last gas bill was $18.65 to fill up. So far in January, shopping at Walmart and with a crockpot, I've been able to feed myself and my girlfriend for around $139. Fair disclaimer I live in a LCOL metro but was it ever really cheaper than this?

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#650

Post by SirMaster »

nathan_douglas wrote: post #638
SirMaster wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Your job is NOT safe. Maybe your job(s). But there are certainly companies out there that actually care about the welfare of their employees. Usually family owned and such. That's where I choose to work and they have always taken care of my needs and listened to me. I never really understood why people have such a desire to work for these big companies that don't care about you. I guess it's just different strokes..…

I definitely try to pick jobs based on vibe, but that's still not 100% safe. I adore my current employer. Best place I've ever worked. But we're contractors, and my team's contract just ended unexpectedly. I trust they respect me enough to rotate me to another team, but I gotta sweat bullets and send out résumés nonetheless.

Yeah, places that I'm used to working do things like: when covid hit and work dried up, the company told employees to go out and find charity work and the company would pay your full salary to do the charity work.

They share in the profits with the employees and such.

I mean sure, it's not 100% a save job. If something truly terrible happened and the company went bankrupt etc, then of course you can still lose your job.

But no time have I ever seen or felt like they would ever lay off people unless the company literally couldn't go on to survive some other way.

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