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The pro-Israel information war

jackpoulson.substack.com

641–650 of 1001 posts

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#641

Coming from Europe and living in the US for the last couple of years, I'm shocked at how society here is clearly pro-israel. It is very clear that in the US the life of an israel citizen is valued way above the one of a palestinian. It is sad to lose that level of humanity. all of the discourse also conveniently ignores that Israel created a large-scale open-air prison in Gaza and removed any hope left for people liv…

I think a lot of Americans either consciously or subconciosuly see the similarity between Israel's situation and the US's with regards to the natives. If there was a native independence movement that resorted to terrorism the us would flatten every reservation in the country.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#642

Why is America so fixated on Israel? Groups like AIPAC and the Israeli lobby seem to be steering U.S. policies in ways that don't necessarily benefit the U.S., while potentially harming its interests. Here's what's at stake: This alliance seems to be turning about two billion people and dozens of muslim-majority nations against America, driving them towards alliances with countries like China. American taxpayer money…

It's realpolitik. It's not about Israel. It's about Russia and Iran. To a lesser extent it's also about the Suez. It also doesn't hurt that any aid, is defense spending in the US which is a stimulus for jobs or manufacturing for defense. Overall it's cheap expenditure for the US.

> It's realpolitik. It's not about Israel

It is not at all. This funding is only occurring because of AIPAC and similar organizations including Christian groups who want to see the end times happen and supporting Israel is apparently important for that. Israel is not a counter balance to Russia at all. And Israel (specifically Netanyahu and AIPAC) undermined the Iran agreement that was going to see them stop their nuclear program.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#643
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an ocean of injustice in the world and this one issue causes more anger than many that are equally abhorrent.

> equally abohorrent Comparing it to the Ukraine's invasion and we can see this is so much more "invasive". There's a literal wall around 2M ppl with little agency, while most of them are refugees from the other side of the wall. To methis is one of the most abohorrent conflicts in earth in this day and age. Given South Africa is no longer segregated, and Rwanda reconciled. I'd be interested to hear what's equally ab…

> There's a literal wall around 2M ppl with little agency, while most of them are refugees from the other side of the wall.

There is a really very simple solution for them to have all of the dignity, agency, independence, prosperity, peace, sovereignty, stability to raise children, etc that you and I want for the Palestinian people. They only have to - and hear me out - not kill Jews. It really is that simple. Don't kill Jews, not by rockets, nor suicide bomb, nor stabbing attacks, nor stealth attacks by terror tunnels, nor any of the varied and creative ways that Jews have been attacked in the region for more than a century.

Most people think that Free Palestine means independence and sovereignty. It does not. Sovereignty has been proffered many times in the last 75 years. So given that it decidedly does not mean what we Westerners expect it means when we hear Free Somewhere - "Free Tibet" "Free Donbas" or whatever - I would like my fellow Westerners to really meditate on the meaning of the term "free" in "Free Palestine". Really ruminate on what possible meaning that can have.

Then, when you are really ready to hear what it means, read the Hamas charter. Or read about the writings, life and times of al-Husseini, the architect and sire of the Free Palestine movement.

We Westerners, especially we Americans, really impose our own views on others. Let Palestinians speak for themselves. They are very clear what Free Palestine means. We just have to listen without preconception.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't support how civilians are being treated in Palestine whatsoever, but: >while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) When has Likud ordered massacres of civilians? Or when has any modern Israeli party? I also don't believe Likud is considered far-right in Israel; just "right". There are parties far to the right of them. Not that that's necessarily a good th…

I suspect you ignore the history of terrorism by Irgun and the bombing of the King David Hotel, which house the British military command. Menachem Begin was a key player in that attack & was extremely proud of it. Who are the modern day parties following in those footsteps? Why Likud, & Begin was a co-founder of that very party— now led by Netanyahu.

I think dang made a mistake by allowing this topic onto HN. Nothing good is going to come out of that.

Begin is rolling in his grave as we speak. There is nothing between today's Likud and any historic version of that party. That's one thing.

The Likud (under the leadership of Sharon, who is also rolling in his grave) is also the party that withdrew from Gaza and handed it to the Palestinian Authority, dismantling settlements (by force). The Likud (under Begin's leadership) was the party that made peace with Egypt and gave Sinai back, also dismantling Israeli settlements (by force).

I don't think the history of the Irgun is really relevant here. At any rate, the views of the Likud shifted substantially and current party called "Likud" has really zero connection to the Likud at the time of Begin/Shamir/Sharon etc.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I suppose that these are people who do not understand Arab culture. Just recently (as in, I remember it was October 22 because I had an appointment in Beersheba that day) an Arab explained to me, more or less because the conversation was not in English, that "You Jews always argue and protest and fight with each other. We don't do that, we listen to our fathers. We have families". He was explaining to me how the diff…

I know you're just sharing your personal experiences, but I got to say that this not only does not match my personal experience, but it also sounds very much like something you hear Israeli settlers say to justify settlement expansions and violence.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have nothing to add here, other than to thank you for expressing this so cogently. It’s not always “right” to measure just action in terms of lives saved or lost, but it’s hard for me (and so many other American Jews) to see anything right or just about 10 dead Palestinians for every dead Israeli.

[flagged]

"Israel is going great lengths to protect civilians."

No they don't. They never did.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#647

What an absolute mind-fuck. I think the greatest thing the Moscow-Teheran-Beijing "bot army diplomacy doctrine" is showing us is that you can radicalize both the US right AND the US Left at the same time by speaking to each side's idiocies at full throat. We are nearing Elders of Zion territory here where the ratio of 2 Billion Muslims to 15 Million Jews, and thus the constant stream of anti-Israeli propaganda, now c…

Just to be clear, are you saying this article is false propaganda? Which parts, and do you have sources? I'd like to know full picture before I send this link to people.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Criticizing the actions of Israel is not anti-semitic, and many Israelis and Jews are critical of the Israeli government and its actions (even more than usual during the ongoing political crisis). Many of the critics I see lack nuance (basically, "rooting for the underdog"), but that's a different problem. The problem is complicated, and there is no simple solution (some kind of two-state may work after many years).…

Hello there, a Palestinian from the west bank here speaking, let me tell you something, our resistance has nothing to do with Israel being a Jewish state, if my brother stole my house and killed my children i will fight him just the same, and you would too and everyone else (I assume). jewish, muslim, christian, vegan.. doesn't matter. Now Hamas does play on the string of religion to get to people, and so does Israel…

I'm not an expert on this but from watching the odd documentary I get the impression that 90%+ of Palestinians think similar to yourself but a minority, maybe 1% are into the hardline islam must defeat the jews type position which Hamas seems to adopt. And then while the others try to live somewhat peacefully the minority unfortunately do October 7 massacre type things which then of course causes retaliation. I'm not sure how this ends unless they drop that?

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#649
post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fundamental assumption of the analysis that there are two mutually exclusive groups, 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Palestine' is flawed. It is possible to simultaneously support the interests of Palestinian and Israeli civilians (and support a peaceful Israel within the 1967 boundaries), while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) and Hamas. I think it is cur…

I think that forcing this dichotomy is part of the deliberate pro-Israel media strategy - if you despise Hamas inhumane acts, then of course you need to be pro-Israel. They want you to focus on Hamas to steer away your attention from what Israel has been doing. (this is also one of the reasons why Hamas has historically been an asset for the Israeli right)

Dichotomy promotes the narratives of all belligerents.

Re: The pro-Israel information war

#650
post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fundamental assumption of the analysis that there are two mutually exclusive groups, 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Palestine' is flawed. It is possible to simultaneously support the interests of Palestinian and Israeli civilians (and support a peaceful Israel within the 1967 boundaries), while condemning the massacre of civilians under the orders of Likud (and other far right parties) and Hamas. I think it is cur…

>I think the fundamental assumption of the analysis that there are two mutually exclusive groups, 'pro-Israel' and 'pro-Palestine' is flawed. It is possible to simultaneously support the interests of Palestinian and Israeli civilians That would be a nuanced view. The reality is that most people and especially most people who post their views online are not capable of seeing things that way.

You are literally responding to one. Would you rather everyone reading here took that comment's advice or yours?
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