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Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#641

Post by iknowstuff »

mkozlows wrote: post #582
Server6 wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that CCS is objectively bad and way worse than NACS. I suggest watching Sandy Munro's analysis on it.

This is what Tesla fans say, but the actual reasons they give are weak. The advantages of CCS: It supports 800V today, it supports V2L/V2H/V2G today. The advantages of NACS: It's smaller, which nobody cares about except Tesla fans.

V2x is a matter of protocol, not the connector.

The advantage of NACS is that it has a working network of chargers, and plugs in effortlessly.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#642

Post by [deleted] »

jliptzin wrote: post #625
carcostthrow wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I lived in a rural location and now in suburbs and still never had any issues, even 4 years ago when there were far fewer chargers. Here is a map of the level 2+ chargers in the country: As he said, different circumstances can shift the solution point. What you have someone that doesn't have a data plan on their phone, or doesn't carry a smartphone and thus doesn't have access to a mapping app? Or the charge point…

You need fast charging at home, end of story. If you can only get 120V at home, forget it. That being said once you do get it, it's so nice never having to stop at a gas station again. As for insurance, you should shop around. Not sure what's on your driving record, but it was $90/mo for me to insure my brand new model 3 when I had that vehicle. But I don't have any tickets/accidents or large claims.

[deleted]

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#643

Post by iknowstuff »

mkozlows wrote: post #474
javier_e06 wrote: post #458

I am an EV user. My connection is not Tesla compatible. I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection for all EVs the same way there is a common gas intake for all gas powered vehicles.

They did. It was CCS. Everyone except Tesla was on board to using it, and it was widely viewed as the standard going forward, and even Tesla was retro-fitting its chargers with CCS ("Magic Dock"), and presumably would one day switch its cars over. Then Tesla pulled a fast one on the morons at GM and Ford, who signed stupid deals that handed the future back to Tesla, and now the only question is whether Tesla consolid…

90% of the north american BEV industry has consolidated on NACS just now.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#644

Post by iknowstuff »

sangnoir wrote: post #636
iknowstuff wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those 4 represent like 80-90% of EVs in the US

> Those 4 represent like 80-90% of EVs in the US I don't doubt they'd like it to remain that way. Starving CCS charging networks of federal dollars that are be relied upon by Japanese, German and Korean manufacturers would be a win for US manufacturers; expanding a Tesla-moat into a US-manufacturer moat. Tesla gets federal dollars, control the standard and keeps its hungriest competitors at bay who most threaten its…

First of all, as is, the legislation requires CCS1. If that changes, nothing is stoping foreign CCS networks from adding NACS connectors.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#645

Post by dreamcompiler »

jancsika wrote: post #183
dreamcompiler wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently the price of energy per mile at a Tesla Supercharger is about 1/3 to 1/2 the equivalent amount of gasoline. If you charge at home it's more like 1/4. A large fraction (probably more than half) of EV owners charge at home and rarely need a fast charger. Approximately zero ICE owners refuel at home. ICE cars must be refueled at gas stations. Demand for fast chargers will never be as high as demand for gas sta…

> Currently the price of energy per mile at a Tesla Supercharger is about 1/3 to 1/2 the equivalent amount of gasoline. Is there a citation for that? It was my understanding that fast chargers were much more expensive, but I could be wrong. > Approximately zero ICE owners refuel at home. Nor do they currently use the extra electricity needed to fuel their cars each night. Again, at scale that's going to have an effec…

Here's one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG_yIcLlzYk

This guy has an Aussie accent but I'm pretty sure he's talking about US dollars. His numbers look accurate to me. He's estimating $5000 for charging a long-range Model 3. I think that might be a bit optimistic so I'd stick with my original estimate of $10k.

Caution: I strongly suggest you buy your PV panels from a company other than Tesla. Tesla's PV business is a bit of a clusterf*ck. Just get regular PV panels and a good inverter from a local installer. If you want to charge at night, you could either install a grid-tied system with net metering (which decreases your cost of grid power), or you could install a battery just for car-charging. In that case, the Tesla Powerwall battery is a perfectly suitable option. Tesla makes great batteries, but their PV offering is overpriced and they seem to have horrible customer service.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#646

Post by wilg »

Alupis wrote: post #621
wilg wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The load is spread out in a completely different way than gas, because 100% of gas cars get gas at a station, while 80% of people with EVs slow-charge at home (or work or whatever). Fast chargers are for road-trips only. Obviously, if we're going to move to cleaner energy we will need infrastructure investment. Worrying that it's not already there makes no sense. The demand for improved electrical infrastructure will…

> Obviously, if we're going to move to cleaner energy It is very unclear whether electric vehicles actually are more environmentally friendly. They sound great - but if you dig into where all the materials come from, it's shocking how externalized we've made that problem. It might be cleaner by time you get to drive it... but it's not cleaner to produce and operate, and in fact may be worse in some cases. Emissions a…

> It is very unclear whether electric vehicles actually are more environmentally friendly.

No, it is extremely clear. Including manufacturing they are cleaner than gas cars. And they will get better over time as the grid greens and as batteries become made out of more recycled materials. The batteries are 99% recyclable into new batteries and so there is a point where new materials never need to come out of the ground. Also, if you only focus on the most pressing thing, greenhouse emissions, the story is even better.

> Our infra just cannot handle it

Yes it can. There have been ~zero issues with the grid as a result of EV adoption.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#647

Post by exw »

mkozlows wrote: post #474
javier_e06 wrote: post #458

I am an EV user. My connection is not Tesla compatible. I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection for all EVs the same way there is a common gas intake for all gas powered vehicles.

They did. It was CCS. Everyone except Tesla was on board to using it, and it was widely viewed as the standard going forward, and even Tesla was retro-fitting its chargers with CCS ("Magic Dock"), and presumably would one day switch its cars over. Then Tesla pulled a fast one on the morons at GM and Ford, who signed stupid deals that handed the future back to Tesla, and now the only question is whether Tesla consolid…

>

It's always curious to see someone with such strong conviction that somehow they have an insight, without access to any of the information involved in negotiating this partnership, that the various folks at GM and Ford failed to see.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#648

Post by Rebelgecko »

freerobby wrote: post #576
javier_e06 wrote: post #458

I am an EV user. My connection is not Tesla compatible. I wish the government would prod manufacturers to create a common connection for all EVs the same way there is a common gas intake for all gas powered vehicles.

What charge port do you have that isn't Tesla compatible with an adapter?

AFAICT, unless you're in San Francisco, Sacramento, or New York there is currently no adapter that will let a non-Tesla vehicle use a supercharger.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#649

Post by Rebelgecko »

bombcar wrote: post #538
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla pulled a fast one on the morons at GM and Ford Consumers prefer NACS to CCS. And Electrify America failed, spectacularly, to deliver a working product. (As someone put it bluntly, NACS exists. CCS does not. You bet on the horse, not the unicorn.) The auto industry is standardising around NACS because it will eventually force the standard into the open. That, in turn, enables antitrust questions about the Tesl…

We should have some brand of car install both plugs (as I understand the smarts are in the car, the plug is basically a dumb electrical connection) and then after a year or two see which people are using.

My understanding is that installing both is basically 2x the complexity. What's on the other side of the plug is fairly different between NACS and CCS

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#650

Post by Alupis »

wilg wrote: post #646
Alupis wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obviously, if we're going to move to cleaner energy It is very unclear whether electric vehicles actually are more environmentally friendly. They sound great - but if you dig into where all the materials come from, it's shocking how externalized we've made that problem. It might be cleaner by time you get to drive it... but it's not cleaner to produce and operate, and in fact may be worse in some cases. Emissions a…

> It is very unclear whether electric vehicles actually are more environmentally friendly. No, it is extremely clear. Including manufacturing they are cleaner than gas cars. And they will get better over time as the grid greens and as batteries become made out of more recycled materials. The batteries are 99% recyclable into new batteries and so there is a point where new materials never need to come out of the groun…

This is some very optimistic thinking. I'm afraid it just doesn't match with the realities though.
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