Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan • Hacker News Board

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#641

Post by joenot443 » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 1:38 PM UTC

sbarre wrote: post #625

paul7986 wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allowing those to shoplift / turn a blind eye to it is a breakdown of society! What are the good reasons that led to and allows this?

Letting people starve or be homeless is also a breakdown of society. One is harm to capitalism, property and profit, one is harm to neighbours and fellow humans,. Which one is worse, knowing you can't solve it all?

Whenever I witness people clearing shelves in NYC, it's never been by someone who appeared homeless. Usually they're wearing clothes as nice as I am, sometimes they've got Airpods in. Let's not make up excuses for criminals, yeah?

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#642

Post by joenot443 » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 1:42 PM UTC

meanmrmustard92 wrote: post #184

Some speculated that prosecutors had gone soft on looting after the Black Lives Matter protests in 2020. But it is hard to see any such trend in the data: generally states with more shoplifting prosecute more shoplifters The claim is about the time-series comparison, and the rebuttal is about the cross section comparison. Is the journalist in question stupid, gaslighting, or both?

It's funny they say it's "hard to see any such trend in the data" of arrests in a post-Ferguson America when the data is so apparent and its meaning so contested that it has its own Wikipedia article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferguson_effect

It would be totally illogical to pretend that such massive sweeping change in public perception of policing would have no effect on the activity of the police themselves.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#643

Post by hotpotamus » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 1:43 PM UTC

joenot443 wrote: post #640

KingMob wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoiler alert: wage theft is just as big as regular theft, if not more. https://prospect.org/economy/wage-theft-shoplifting-cost-dif... Think of shoplifting as "inefficient redistribution".

This is one of those talking points I see progressives use that has just never made sense to me. So we can agree people's time is stolen from them, this is wrong. The part that has never made sense to me is why this means stealing as a whole something that society should encourage? If someone is abused by their parents we would agree they suffered injustice, like people who had their wages skimmed by their employer.…

If people are just born criminals, then why is this a problem that is arising now? Is it actually a new problem or just media sensationalism? If it's real, then when did it start and can we surmise the reasons for the trend?

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#644

Post by cafard » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 1:44 PM UTC

It's not just Manhattan. At certain CVS stores in Washington, DC, one must find a clerk to open the door in front of the deodorant. At most of the ones I know, one must find a clerk to get access to razor blades.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#645

Post by faeriechangling » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 1:50 PM UTC

KingMob wrote: post #635

_xnmw wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve also noticed a weird tendency to downplay theft lately. Happened before in history. See the Russian Revolution and the creation of the Soviet Union. Widespread moral justification for theft of private property on class-based "social justice" arguments. It's even happening right here in this HN thread, people justifying stealing.

Spoiler alert: wage theft is just as big as regular theft, if not more. https://prospect.org/economy/wage-theft-shoplifting-cost-dif... Think of shoplifting as "inefficient redistribution".

Exactly, it would just be disproportionate to make a big fuss about these small time thief's, even if they are a bit morally dubious.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#646

Post by joenot443 » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 1:50 PM UTC

hotpotamus wrote: post #643

joenot443 wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those talking points I see progressives use that has just never made sense to me. So we can agree people's time is stolen from them, this is wrong. The part that has never made sense to me is why this means stealing as a whole something that society should encourage? If someone is abused by their parents we would agree they suffered injustice, like people who had their wages skimmed by their employer.…

If people are just born criminals, then why is this a problem that is arising now? Is it actually a new problem or just media sensationalism? If it's real, then when did it start and can we surmise the reasons for the trend?

I don't think anyone's saying people are born criminals. People commit crime for a variety of reasons, but it's very obvious for anyone who lives in a big American city why this is specifically a problem now.

It's absolutely not media sensationalism, I've seen people walk into CVS, Target, bodegas, etc. with a bag and clear entire shelves in full sight of other shoppers. They know nobody wants to end up on TikTok accused of committing a hate crime, so they let them leave.

The cops outside, understanding the motivations of our DA Alvin Bragg, generally don't chase as they similarly realize even if they catch them, they'll be out the next day.

It's frustrating to me when people who don't live in NYC act as if they understand the problem or worse, gaslight civilians and tell them it's just "media sensationalism".

If I had to give one reason for the trend, it is that it has come become apparent that the risk:reward for stealing:persecution has tipped in the favor of stealing, and every day more people in the city decide to take part. Blaming Amazon or 'the media' is almost insulting to the shopkeepers who've had their livelihoods ruined from this selfishness.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#647

Post by sonzohan » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 1:52 PM UTC

The great irony of the discussion is the number of people discussing theft, having used the wget grep trick or the archive link.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#648

Post by habnds » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 1:53 PM UTC

joenot443 wrote: post #640

KingMob wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spoiler alert: wage theft is just as big as regular theft, if not more. https://prospect.org/economy/wage-theft-shoplifting-cost-dif... Think of shoplifting as "inefficient redistribution".

This is one of those talking points I see progressives use that has just never made sense to me. So we can agree people's time is stolen from them, this is wrong. The part that has never made sense to me is why this means stealing as a whole something that society should encourage? If someone is abused by their parents we would agree they suffered injustice, like people who had their wages skimmed by their employer.…

the point isn't that stealing is ok, it's that the people who claim to care about "stealing" care about one very specific type of stealing by one group of people and don't care about another more important and more extensive form of stealing by another group of people. It begins to look as though people maybe don't care about stealing as much as they claim to.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#649

Post by hellfish » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 2:03 PM UTC

abvdasker wrote: post #471

hellfish wrote: post #376

There's a simple solution to this: just leave, and take your taxable income with you. If a jurisdiction can't do a basic function of government, why the fuck would you want to perpetuate the administrative disease any further? Paying taxes to these jurisdictions is like enabling an abusive relationship

Ah yes, the "simple solution" of uprooting your entire life because it takes ~2 minutes longer to buy deodorant.

> because it takes ~2 minutes longer to buy deodorant.

Ah yes, because this problem is independent from any other problems such as robbery, car break ins, homelessness, drugs, etc

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#650

Post by bombcar » Fri, Nov 25, 2022, 2:05 PM UTC

UncleEntity wrote: post #543

webnrrd2k wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think serial numbers would be enough to stop the vast majority of people selling stolen items. It would require companies to track serial numbers that go into the store, and serial numbers of items put on shelves, or otherwise legally leave the store. After a while, it'll be clear which items & serial numbers were legelly sold vs. stolen. And, to address the original point, copied stolen serial numbers still aren't…

So, I drive a truck. It’s hard enough to get them to unload you when all they have to do is count pallets like “yep, 22 pallets of potatoes” even harder when they have to break down pallets to count individual cases and would be impossible if they had to verify every single item by serial number. Even when I used to deliver to individual grocery stores it was difficult because they didn’t plan for unloading the truck…

You could do it like the expiration/plant batch codes on food - ignored unless there’s an investigation for some reason.