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What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

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Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#641

Post by svillar »

Long time HN lurker here - some of the comments are being blown out of proportion.

Statistically speaking, these are called “minorities” for a reason, there simply aren’t enough of them in STEM related fields.

Diversifying your team/group with one or two female or foreign born individuals won’t dramatically impact the overall productivity of your team - assuming this person is not already a very hard working and/or bright individual, which many/most are.

The fact that this person made it to the interview phase and passed the initial filters (which are typically gender/race blind) indicates that they are potentially qualified for the role.

Keep in mind, interviewing is hard - for both parties involved, for different reasons but especially hard for candidates. There is a significant “luck” component involved.

Many interviewers are inexperienced and focus solely on finding ways to disqualify candidates as opposed to figuring out how a given person could “fit in” and contribute/help level up the team.

I ask that you have an open mind and show some empathy. We still have a lot of work to do to create a more diverse and inclusive society.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#642

Post by telltruth »

comex wrote: post #132

> You might imagine this policy doesn’t bias the hiring process, since managers are still free to choose who to hire after interviewing the diverse candidates. But because of the number of applicants, most are rejected based on their resumes. Imagine diversity candidates are 1% of the applicants but 15% of those interviewed. This gives those candidates opportunities to do well in interviews that their peers with simi…

Managers are NOT free to choose who to hire. When you get headcount, they tell you to make sure not to sacrifice quality and, also in same breath, they tell you that you have no career paths if you don't make your DEI numbers. If there are no actual competent candidates in your field who also happens to be diverse, what would you do?

Everyone from CEO to line managers in all major big techs are now have DEI target that must be achieved. If it is not then don't bother applying for promos. Most people at L7+ will also see significant cut in bonuses if they don't make DEI targets. Especially at VP level, the cut becomes pretty significant. So, they constantly badger their underlings to make their numbers. There are very specific commitments you must write down in OKRs.

I have seen a situation where a manager literally ignored every single non-diverse resume and did not interviewed single non-diverse candidate because of desperation of not making his numbers. He went out of his way to get person completely stranger to work his team was doing. He finally ended up hiring a person well below expectations and this person now simply hangs out in the team as diversity token. The VP sent email to whole group congratulating in supporting diversity and be inclusive. Everyone got their well deserved bonuses for this magnificent achievement.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#643

Post by forgomonika »

csmpltn wrote: post #285
forgomonika wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's part of the problem. The other part is the networks you are tapping into to find candidates. People tend to collect others that look, act, and think like them. That's one reason why people group up into subgroups that all have similar traits, past experiences, and belief systems. When it comes to a recruiting pipeline this is critical. If you are tapping members of your team to help finding candidates from the…

But here you have a multi-national corporation, with offices globally and ability to hire from any culture on the planet - and despite waiting months, actively searching for a "diverse" candidate, they were unable to find a single candidate who was "diverse" enough. What conclusions do you draw from this? That "people are racist"? That the pipeline is broken? This feels like ignoring the elephant in the room.

What conclusions do I draw from this? Sorry to be so blunt, but my conclusion is that you are lacking a lot of understanding of how these things work. Are you really arguing that they can fly and move anyone in from any country as a means to deal with struggles in diverse hiring? Do you not know much about much that costs and the issues with visa involved?

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#644

Post by ProjectArcturis »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #635
ProjectArcturis wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Third in "desirability for property developers", as if that were some kind of important metric for a city.

It is. Portland went from shockingly massively increasing home prices to declining home prices in no small part due to this.

Isn't it generally better to have affordable housing than shockingly massively increasing home prices?

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#645

Post by bobsmooth »

svillar wrote: post #641

Long time HN lurker here - some of the comments are being blown out of proportion. Statistically speaking, these are called “minorities” for a reason, there simply aren’t enough of them in STEM related fields. Diversifying your team/group with one or two female or foreign born individuals won’t dramatically impact the overall productivity of your team - assuming this person is not already a very hard working and/or b…

>Statistically speaking, these are called “minorities” for a reason, there simply aren’t enough of them in STEM related fields.

What's the correct ratio of white to brown? To male to female? Do employee demographics need to mirror society demographics?

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#646

Post by AussieWog93 »

paperwasp42 wrote: post #565
omginternets wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relatedly: I cannot defend the kind of "diversity" that would rather hire a rich brahmin than an inner-city American kid in need of a leg-up, just to fulfill some backwards skin-color quota. It's obscene, and insulting to all parties involved. I also worry that this nonsense will erode support for the kind of diversity I do defend, or worse, prompt some kind of revanchist backlash against visible minorities in genera…

> I also worry that this nonsense will erode support for the kind of diversity I do defend, or worse, prompt some kind of revanchist backlash against visible minorities in general. As a women in tech, I am feeling the backlash. I have seen a huge increase in the amount of skepticism of my abilities that I face from people who haven't worked with me before. And the worst part of it is that there's actually logic behin…

>I continue to hear sexist comments from people who never would have said those sorts of things just five years ago.

As a man in tech, I've been a part of countless hush-hush conversations that would never be repeated within earshot of a woman or untrusted man. It's as grim as you say, and worse.

I'm really sorry that things have become like this.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#647

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

Dig1t wrote: post #382

I work at a different FAANG and it seems like more and more the only news that we get from corporate is related to DEI. Also a lot of hiring details are now hidden from ICs. It used to be that you would be apart of the interview panel as an interviewer and then you would get together with your team afterwards and everyone on the team would vote yes/no and that would pretty much be it. Now it’s made by a manager elsew…

>I do worry that my kids won’t be diverse enough to be able to get into a decent school or get a good job like I was able to when they’re older.

That’s silly. You should stay focused on ensuring that your kids become well rounded, educated, and cultured people fit for the society of tomorrow and prepared for problems you can’t imagine.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#648

Post by AussieWog93 »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #560
colpabar wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be forbidden to say, but for all intents and purposes, “diverse” means “not white”.

And in some cases, not Asian.

Not sure why this was downvoted. Asians get discriminated against even harder than whites when applying for elite universities.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#649

Post by telltruth »

svillar wrote: post #641

Long time HN lurker here - some of the comments are being blown out of proportion. Statistically speaking, these are called “minorities” for a reason, there simply aren’t enough of them in STEM related fields. Diversifying your team/group with one or two female or foreign born individuals won’t dramatically impact the overall productivity of your team - assuming this person is not already a very hard working and/or b…

This is not how it works dude. Right now, in big tech, teams have target of 30% diversity, i.e., 1/3rd of the team. There is literally not that many "diverse" people available to hire. You would be lucky to even fill these positions with competent non-diverse candidates. If your team works on networking stack, how many well qualified female/black/latino folks are out there who will apply to your post at that point in time? VPs then come to you and tell you to hire "diverse" candidate any way with no experience in networking and ask you to train them later. They do this to protect their bonuses. Now your 30% of the team is filled with people who have no business of being there. Besides experience, most don't even have any passion for the field. They just walk-in flashing their diversity cards. This is massive drain on teams productivity. How does this team would compete with lean and mean startups? The truth is they won't. The DEI is great initiative to sunset aging big tech and replace them with new blood.

Re: What “diversity and inclusion” means at Microsoft

#650

Post by AussieWog93 »

balls187 wrote: post #455
nsxwolf wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that mean? Just about anyone can get into a school, or get a job.

> What does that mean? Worrying that kids may not be able to get into a decent school because they're not diverse enough seems like a a nice problem to have--parents of "diverse" children have much larger worries. > Just about anyone can get into a school, or get a job. Wouldn't that mean that based on the equality of outcomes, it doesn't matter what type of school OP's kids go to, and therefore no reason to worry.

>Worrying that kids may not be able to get into a decent school because they're not diverse enough seems like a a nice problem to have--parents of "diverse" children have much larger worries.

Do your typical ethnic minority immigrant parents worry about anything else _apart_ from their childrens' job prospects and education?

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