Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't even know how you'd generate fake votes in the first place > You can't just make people up! > You certainly can't just make up a final tally > the paper ballots have to match up It seems you live in an area with auditable physical copies of the poll receipts. Good. That should be the standard. But 5 states still don't do that: https://www.axios.com/2018/02/16/five-states-without-paper-t... And I seem to rec…
Receipts would not have mattered here. The guilty parties were literally casting votes for people they knew would not show up. It’s an identity issue, much harder, and with its own set of controversies.
Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges
641–650 of 889 posts
Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges
#642Maybe this will come across as yet another Australian telling the Yanks how to suck eggs at this democracy thing (because I'm sure you haven't had enough of us tut-tutting you about your gun laws or health system), but I believe there are several key factors that mitigate against large-scale electoral fraud in Australia. 1. We have a single federal, non-partisan (ie. beauracratic not political) electoral commission,…
Why would you want low-information voters to be forced to vote in a compulsory voting system? Australian "democracy" is hardly a shining star in the world, given state politics is a corrupt mess with branch stacking (featuring cash in manilla envelopes exchanged in car parks, no really, this happened!) and outright corruption. Then you have both major parties being practically identical (both vehemently voted for ant…
WIth respect to party branch stacking, you're conflating the internal selection of candidates within a party, to the external election among candidates for an electoral seat. Please refer to the context of this article that we're all commenting on. I stand by my characterisation of Australian electoral system as one of the least corrupt in terms of the way the elections are run (which is what we - or at least I - are talking about).
As for your self-proclaimed "belief" that AEC is partisan ("the three majors receive preferential treatment"), please provide a citation for ANY kind of evidence that is true.
While preferential voting is not the same as proportional representation, the recent federal election here shows that people are less wedded to their blue/red inherited voting "teams" than ever before, with the greatest ever election to parliament of independent candidates and Greens, and the Greens now holding the balance of power in the Senate.
You may well look at Australia and see a "basketcase". I look at the US and see far worse than that. Is Australia perfect? Clearly not. I vote Green and I agree that most of what you've cited as issues, are indeed that. But my kids aren't more likely to die from gunshot wounds. A person won't die just because they can't afford private health insurance. As for "blasting away Afghanistani civilians" - there is a very public court case right now underway against the (highly decorated) soldier I assume you're referring to. Meanwhile, to the best of my knowledge, not a single individual at any level responsible for the "Collateral Murder" incident has been punished. I won't hold my breath.
Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges
#643Earlier quoted context omitted.
Receipts would not have mattered here. The guilty parties were literally casting votes for people they knew would not show up. It’s an identity issue, much harder, and with its own set of controversies.
Wow so we need some explicit record of abstaining that the voter can submit and check the status on.
Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges
#644Earlier quoted context omitted.
So all this time, "election fraud" is entirely plausible but we've been building a strawman around "voter fraud" and saying that it doesn't happen? What level of bad faith debating is this?
Election fraud is exactly what Donald Trump and his conspirators are about to be dragged over the coals for by the Jan 6 committee. He begged the GA SecState to cook the election in his favor. Basically the exact thing Myers was caught and convicted of in this story. Trump made the accusation multiple times going back even to 2016 that millions of illegal votes were cast against him. The details of his allegation wer…
For example if under law there needs to be a signature match on the envelope, but such matches were not done, or done to such a low standard that they are useless. Then technically you should be able to have those ballots thrown out. Since a signature on the envelope is a big part of verifying whether the ballot was filled out by the person it belonged to.
This was the contention that Trump was arguing about. Whether the election rules were followed. In the end, they pretty much counted everything. And no judge wanted to overturn that. So that pretty much summarized last US election. There was a result. They recounted the ballots. And no judge wanted to step in to question it. Procedure was followed.
From an outsiders perspective, or even from the perspective of someone that uses some critical thinking. The procedure is flawed. There are multiple opportunities to cheat, by either cheating at the source, stuffing envelopes and faking signatures. Or cheating along the path. By swapping out the ballots after the leave the envelopes and before they get to the machines doing the counting.
It seems to me that both were possible. The extra long time it took to count ballots in select cities, made it more likely.
Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges
#645They make it sound so simple: Bribe the Judge of Elections who oversees everything. Dilute the vote tallies by using the voting machines to increment the votes for specific candidates. Certify that the fake results are correct. Lie if anybody asks. This person did this with 2 separate judges. Why is it so easy?
Apart from everything else, if you're not trying to ensure that a candidate wins, regardless of their popularity, and are instead trying to skew the odds toward a candidate who already has a reasonable chance of winning, election fraud becomes easier and harder to detect. As others have pointed out, these "judges" were actually minor, elected election officials, close to being volunteers. They were doing this to make…
Not exactly.
Keep going on this scenario. If voters had to show ID like in Europe, when someone shows up and is denied to vote because “they already voted” it would be an immediate red flag for fraud.
With the IDless system, someone could be denied and it does not necessarily imply malice.
There is a whole system of provincial ballots - because this and other mistakes in ballots happen often enough. Voter ID wouldn’t secure anything but in Europe it brings more confidence, I’m not sure why it wouldn’t in the USA.
Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges
#646Earlier quoted context omitted.
Other countries have NOT figured out gun control, as the recent fall of Hong Kong and imprisonment of the entire continent of Australia have illustrated. The solution is not a simple one as you imply, otherwise it would have been solved already. Give people some credit!
> Other countries have NOT figured out gun control, as the recent fall of Hong Kong and imprisonment of the entire continent of Australia have illustrated. Australia, imprisoned? Because of our gun laws? I have access to four different shooting ranges within twenty minutes travel, and my friends go hunting every other weekend. How exactly are we imprisoned?
Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges
#647Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't have to make people up. There there plenty of dead people on rhe registry. Although they are supposedly doing better about that lately.
Dead people on the registration list has of course not much to do with dead people actually casting a vote. Not to mention that many "dead" voters aren't dead, but the SSA fucked up. The Heritage Foundation, which is very much in love with the idea of voter fraud, has been able to find a total of 19 cases since 1997 where somebody used a deceased person's registration to (attempt to) vote. So maybe let's kick the fac…
On the larger topic of voter registration, it shouldn't be that hard for them to keep relatively clean rolls. Even if it's not causing an issue, having clean rolls promotes the integrity of and trust in the voting system. I mean, most of the dead people voting is just people signing in the wrong spot.
I'm not sure how a federal registry would really help much. I doubt there are really people voting in multiple states. There is a federal ID - the passport. Although that is relatively expensive, but it is also valid for a much longer duration, so the card can be cheaper than a state ID. I do believe that state IDs should be free if people are under the poverty level, but I also have a hard time believing that $40ish dollars every 4 year is the real barrier (things like the documents needed to get one are a bigger pain in my opinion, like birth certificates, marriage certificates for name changes, bill with your name and address, etc; even more so for Real ID). Plus the hassle of spending hours at the DMV.
"So maybe let's kick the facetious "supposedly" of the last sentence."
I'm not being facetious. Many states have implemented new programs to clean up the voter rolls. There's very little data to show if it's any improvement. In part, that's because the problem had little baseline data to go on (few occurrences of dead people voting). The other part is that many places haven't been very strict about cleaning (like Philly having approximately 1M registered voters when there's maybe 700k eligible to vote just based on age). So not much to speak of on the actual "problem" side since it wasn't large to begin with. But also not much progress on the trust side with cleaning up.
Also, I think that 19 number is low. I thought they found something like 35 in Philly in one election (year 2016? out of the 6k dead people who voted). The rest were simple mistakes. Still not a big problem, but certainly more they 19 nationally in 25 years. Again, it's mostly a trust and integrity issue than a true functional issue.
Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges
#648I wonder if his actions managed to change the outcome of any election.
The fact these are all known yet nothing is done to change things means that those in power have no incentive to do so, and the public doesn't care or is misinformed enough to not care about it.
Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges
#649Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know for a fact that where I vote it is impossible to vote more than once (or close to, Berlin managed to fuck up voting last year for some reason). How is it impossible? Everyone is centrally registered with their primary residence. Based on these records, invitations are sent out prior to elections. With that invitation, or passport or ID, you show up at your voting local (of which there are plenty, the school ju…
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Is that really a Democrat position? I feel like there must be a “quiet part” no one is saying out loud, because it makes no sense to me.
Re: Former U.S. congressman, operative pleads guilty to election fraud charges
#650They make it sound so simple: Bribe the Judge of Elections who oversees everything. Dilute the vote tallies by using the voting machines to increment the votes for specific candidates. Certify that the fake results are correct. Lie if anybody asks. This person did this with 2 separate judges. Why is it so easy?
Could it be widespread?