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Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

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Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#641

Post by whimsicalism »

rurp wrote: post #619
whimsicalism wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The WWII generation fixed the ozone hole, but their kids didn’t lift a finger for global warming. Let's not pretend these are comparable challenges. > our rapidly collapsing democracy keep sabotaging our efforts. When people say stuff like this, are they being hyperbolic or do they actually mean it? How long is the democratic tradition in the US that is collapsing?

We just had a candidate openly try to steal the last presidential election and face no real consequences as a result. In fact, it likely strengthened his position. 10 years ago I would have thought the end of American democracy was extremely unlikely, now though we're only a few small steps away and that bridge could be crossed at any point. This isn't some outlier event either, democracy has been receding around the…

I don't think we were even remotely close to somehow Trump remaining on as president.

> democracy has been receding around the world for years

I am skeptical. Majoritarian democracy in the US has only really existed for 40-50 years and I perceive it as continuing to expand both here and abroad.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#642

Post by KarlKemp »

ayngg wrote: post #577
cogman10 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one I think you are missing is that nurses are and have been overworked for a WHILE now. (that's what I get from /r/nursing) Hospitals have made sure they hire JUST ENOUGH nurses to cover shifts and no more. With covid hitting, this blew out the number of nurses needed resulting in a lot of "I know you've already worked 60 hours, but can you do another 20? we are short!". Rather than hiring permanent people or up…

I actually think that this is just one example of many across a ton of disciplines where people like Nurses basically are forced to deal with costs and responsibilities offloaded onto them from above the responsibility chain. Resources are eaten up at the top of the chain to their benefit and costs are offloaded down the chain until it reaches people like Nurses at the end of the line who have to deal with it because…

This reads too much like a generalization of the standard complaints about management and their stupid meetings, the basic thesis of that web comic that was neither funny nor true, Dilbert.

The criminal justice system may be overwhelmed, but its reaction certainly isn't to just let criminals "exit like a revolving door". The US is still incarcerating people at 10x the rate of other wealthy countries.

Nurses being overworked is simply due to there not being enough nurses. It matters little if there's too much bureaucracy somewhere, or if too much money is spent on pharmaceuticals (about twice as expensive as anywhere else) or if doctors make too much money or if the US has a uniquely unhealthy population.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#643

Post by davidgay »

cogman10 wrote: post #479
14 wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a Canadian stand point you American nurses are already highly paid. My brother works in the US and was recently thinking of coming back to work closer to where he grew up. The best deal he could get here was $20usd less then what he makes there. So on top of making $20 more then a nurse here he is also making it in USD. He is making huge amounts of cash as a nurse down there. How much more do nurses need?

> How much more do nurses need? What you need to realize is that nursing salaries in the US are NOT uniform. From what I've seen in past discussions about it is they range anywhere from $20/hr -> $100k/year. The $100k/year are usually achieved only in cities and generally only by travel nurses. The majority of nurses, that I've seen, are clocking in at 50->60k yearly salary. Sort of like saying "Oh, that google dev m…

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Highest-paying-jobs-in-S... reports Registered Nurses as getting $150k/year in San Francisco, and $83k nationally.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#644

Post by asdff »

tristor wrote: post #219
mfer wrote: post #46

I've spent a fair amount of time talking with nurses about the problems. I'm related to a bunch of people who are nurses across disciplines (ER, ICU, med/surg, etc). It's been enlightening hearing them talk about the problems... 1. Many new nurses make the same or more and long time nurses. It's frustrating when the nurse in charge with the most experience is making less than new nurses. Some hospitals are even tryin…

> This one is big for product designers. You're right that there are definitely opportunities for improvement here. As a Product person that has worked in EMR/Healthcare IT systems, I can tell you the biggest challenge is most of the decisions are driven by legally-required compliance. In many cases, you literally cannot make it better because the brokenness is /by design/ to comply with the law. Nearly across the bo…

There is a reason why these things are like this. Someone with influence is making money hand over fist with the current state of affairs, so it says. Regulation are always penned by those in industry they are set to regulate with government connections. Politicians don't do anything unless there is a push for it by lobbyists or donors because that's where the incentives are.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#645

Post by JaimeThompson »

I-M-S wrote: post #634
JaimeThompson wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which things do you thing should change back and what should they change back into?

End to NIMBYism. Current homeowners should not be able to block new developments and encase a neighbourhood in amber.

It would need to apply to everyone. No more of this open up single family housing is this middle class area while protecting the parks / forest in the wealthy areas.

What about things like AirBnB? Limiting those is a form of NIMBYism as is limiting where factories and polluting buildings can be placed and/ran.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#646

Post by ayngg »

notch656a wrote: post #593
ayngg wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think that this is just one example of many across a ton of disciplines where people like Nurses basically are forced to deal with costs and responsibilities offloaded onto them from above the responsibility chain. Resources are eaten up at the top of the chain to their benefit and costs are offloaded down the chain until it reaches people like Nurses at the end of the line who have to deal with it because…

I don't disagree nurses DESERVE to be paid more (I'm not sure if the economics bear out but they're certainly as WORTHY as many other professions), but wouldn't the fact that these nurses continue to work in nursing despite considering leaving bolster the argument even further that they are receiving adequate compensation? Staying when you want to leave indicates there's enough compensation to 'make it worth it' at l…

I am not really specifically making an argument on their salaries, I guess I am saying that Nurses are in the position where they have the least leverage in the system so they end up bearing a lot of the responsibilities that should be held elsewhere while having a disproportionate amount of resources allocated to them.

In healthcare I get the feeling that a lot of workers feel stuck in that there are many patients and people depending on them, and to leave would sort of be like abandoning them while increasing the burden on ex-cowoerkers.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#647

Post by [deleted] »

tomrod wrote: post #627
triska wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is due to Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy : https://www.jerrypournelle.com/reports/jerryp/iron.html "In any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the engineers and launch technicians and scientists at NASA, even some agric…

You just explained something I saw on many establishing subreddits!

[deleted]

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#648

Post by asdff »

JaimeThompson wrote: post #447
tristor wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This one is big for product designers. You're right that there are definitely opportunities for improvement here. As a Product person that has worked in EMR/Healthcare IT systems, I can tell you the biggest challenge is most of the decisions are driven by legally-required compliance. In many cases, you literally cannot make it better because the brokenness is /by design/ to comply with the law. Nearly across the bo…

Doctors and hospitals control some of the more powerful lobbying groups in the United States making it a bit strange they haven't worked on those issues.

It seems the byzantine regulatory compliance software lobby is even more powerful then

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#649

Post by pojzon »

notch656a wrote: post #593
ayngg wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think that this is just one example of many across a ton of disciplines where people like Nurses basically are forced to deal with costs and responsibilities offloaded onto them from above the responsibility chain. Resources are eaten up at the top of the chain to their benefit and costs are offloaded down the chain until it reaches people like Nurses at the end of the line who have to deal with it because…

I don't disagree nurses DESERVE to be paid more (I'm not sure if the economics bear out but they're certainly as WORTHY as many other professions), but wouldn't the fact that these nurses continue to work in nursing despite considering leaving bolster the argument even further that they are receiving adequate compensation? Staying when you want to leave indicates there's enough compensation to 'make it worth it' at l…

Most of those ppl cannot leave due to various obligations.

If you want to see an indocator of terrible compensation - check why pretty much noone (at least here) wants to be a nurse.

Profession is rapidly aging because new ppl are not joining. And they are not joining because work is hard and pay is terrible.

The whole Healthcare system if we dont get robots in place fast is going to crumble soon like a house of cards.

Re: Report: 90% of nurses considering leaving the profession in the next year

#650

Post by Sakos »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #565
Wistar wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, alas, found guilty: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/03/25/1088902...

The solution isn't that Radonda Vought, who killed a patient through a string of crassly negligent actions should walk free - one would like to see the whole chain of command be given serious prison time. It's clear that patient safety at Vanderbilt isn't a priority - training and safety culture reflects that. Strange to see that HN, which is generally suspicious of copaganda, falls for very transparent nursepaganda.

Imagine if aviation functioned like health care in the US. We'd have a magnitude more crashes and deaths.
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