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Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

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Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#641

Post by acchow »

outlace wrote: post #470

I used to be against standardized tests, but I grew up as a low-income minority in a single-parent household and I ended up getting into good schools pretty much only due to my high test scores, which has been a life changer. Other than test scores, I couldn't afford to do any fancy extra-curriculars. It felt a lot more achievable to know I can change my life if I just focus and do well on a test than it would if I h…

Extra-curricular well-roundedness was basically added to separate the well off from the poor

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#642

Post by rayiner »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #593
sparrc wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agreed. I could also buy a test prep book on amazon plus get a few others from the school and public libraries for a grand total of $15 spent on test prep. That's a lot cheaper than dedicating my working summer to smarmy volunteer/extra-curricular projects.

I went to high school in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and almost all of the top academic students in my class were first or second generation immigrants (mostly Indian) that had no interest in extra-curricular activities like sports, band, choir, or really anything. It's important that people, especially immigrants, can get into these schools based solely on their test scores and not have to do any of the other trivial…

The notion of a “well rounded student” who does music, art, and extra curricular activities, is a legacy of blue blood WASP culture.

That is not to say that I think only test scores should matter. But the kinds of extracurriculars colleges value—in particular that they don’t value having a job or working in the farm—smacks of old money ideals.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#643

Post by hardtke »

lightup wrote: post #553

My son found out 2 days ago he didn't get accepted to his in-state land grant public university. The University of Minnesota. This was his fall back plan. Now he's screwed and may not be able to start college in fall. His sins: - a 35 ACT score (legit with no studying or ACT prep classes) - a 3.8 weighted GPA (because he took multiple AP classes and actually was in college for his junior and senior years through Minn…

It's important in relating these horror stories to include whether or not he was applying to Computer Science and/or Engineering. The growth in demand for CS has outpaced any schools ability to handle the students. My daughter's college counselor had different sets of target schools depending on the major (in her case she was thinking about biomedical engineering, one of the most sought after).

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#644

Post by patmorgan23 »

jacobr1 wrote: post #573
dangle1 wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can relate, and I appreciated the doors the PSAT and SAT opened for me. OTOH, I test higher than my actual abilities in my opinion, and that was a relatively unfair advantage the test gave me.

What does testing higher than one's ability actually mean? I'm guessing either you think the test is an imperfect proxy for a different (more important) skill, or otherwise you have imposter syndrome.

Multiple choice test are a very flawed proxy for knowledge processing ability.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#645

Post by smrtinsert »

outlace wrote: post #470

I used to be against standardized tests, but I grew up as a low-income minority in a single-parent household and I ended up getting into good schools pretty much only due to my high test scores, which has been a life changer. Other than test scores, I couldn't afford to do any fancy extra-curriculars. It felt a lot more achievable to know I can change my life if I just focus and do well on a test than it would if I h…

They literally wrote again, it's a multiple factor process. Why is there this concept "test vs no test"? No one expects meritless acceptance to anything.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#646

Post by strikelaserclaw »

ecshafer wrote: post #192

College Admissions in the US is broken. This is a great move at restoring normalcy though. The SAT or ACT are the best thing for leveling the playing field between the rich and the poor. If anything I would like to see more reliance on this. If I had my way the US would model the college admissions process on the Chinese Gao Kao. Have everyone take the the exam, have students list their preference for university, the…

You wants kids to grind for an exam instead of becoming passionate about something?

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#647

Post by ashtonkem »

acchow wrote: post #641
outlace wrote: post #470

I used to be against standardized tests, but I grew up as a low-income minority in a single-parent household and I ended up getting into good schools pretty much only due to my high test scores, which has been a life changer. Other than test scores, I couldn't afford to do any fancy extra-curriculars. It felt a lot more achievable to know I can change my life if I just focus and do well on a test than it would if I h…

Extra-curricular well-roundedness was basically added to separate the well off from the poor

As a general rule, I always look at more subjective measures like extra curriculars and “well-roundedness” with a huge amount of skepticism. Such subjective standards are phenomenal places to hide discrimination and favoratism.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#648

Post by tomohawk »

A long time ago, there used to be standardized tests for all sorts of things. These allowed people of all backgrounds to pursue career paths in many industries, without requiring the time and money involved in getting a college degree.

They were sued into oblivion because of what we now call equity. The pernicious idea that if equality of outcome is not observed, then it must be due to racism.

The industries that used these ended up de-risking by just requiring college degrees.

Guess who suffered the most?

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#649

Post by cma »

runarberg wrote: post #636
outlace wrote: post #470

I used to be against standardized tests, but I grew up as a low-income minority in a single-parent household and I ended up getting into good schools pretty much only due to my high test scores, which has been a life changer. Other than test scores, I couldn't afford to do any fancy extra-curriculars. It felt a lot more achievable to know I can change my life if I just focus and do well on a test than it would if I h…

Seriously, is there no talk about how unfair the notion of extra-curricular activities is in the US? It is one of these things that gave me a major culture shock moving into the US. Things like giving an advantage to people that have so many hours of volunteer work feels a really blatant way to give an unfair advantage to folks that are already way privileged and over represented.

> Does working help you get into college?

>Yes! Having a job in high school can definitely look good on your college application. As long as it doesn't end up negatively impacting other key areas such as academic performance and extracurricular participation, working in high school is an excellent way to increase the strength of your application.

https://admissionsight.com/will-a-high-school-job-help-or-hu...

It does seem pretty screwed up. I don't see how working couldn't have a negative impact on time for extracurricular activities. Or say someone wasn't even officially a worker, like providing care for elderly relatives living at home.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#650

Post by strikelaserclaw »

lightup wrote: post #553

My son found out 2 days ago he didn't get accepted to his in-state land grant public university. The University of Minnesota. This was his fall back plan. Now he's screwed and may not be able to start college in fall. His sins: - a 35 ACT score (legit with no studying or ACT prep classes) - a 3.8 weighted GPA (because he took multiple AP classes and actually was in college for his junior and senior years through Minn…

It is crazy how competitive even state schools are now a days. Back in my day, it would be pretty easy to go to UVA or University of Minnesota...
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