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Brave Search beta

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Re: Brave Search beta

#641

Post by jccalhoun »

RileyJames wrote: post #348
jccalhoun wrote: post #338

I wish them luck. More competition in search is welcome. I don't think I will use it very often though because accuracy in search results trumps any concern I have with privacy online that I get from using google or bing.

But which is more accurate google or bing? Having used DDG (~bing) for a few years now, at first I felt it was inferior, but I stuck with it for the privacy. Now I feel it's roughly equal, depending on the query. Google is full of spammy SEO content, where as DDG elevates niche content (probably more because it's not targeted by SEO spam, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt) I feel it's somewhat impossible to…

I actually wrote a userscript to allow me to easily switch from bing to google or other search engines https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/403095-altsearchrefactored

Re: Brave Search beta

#642

Post by throwaway3699 »

Kiro wrote: post #560
eyelidlessness wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not clear who you’re saying is being too sensitive, or why you think so.

People who think it's disrespectful when a company representative do not preface every response with "I deeply apologize that you feel this way" or some equivalent nonsense. You even claim responding to something inaccurate is user hostile.

I respect the candid comments from the Brave Dev. I wish all "PR departments" acted like this to be honest.

Re: Brave Search beta

#643

Post by solso »

Seirdy wrote: post #531
solso wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mixing with Google results only can happen after opt-in and only in Brave browser. You can see if a single query has been mixed clicking on the `Info`, or check the independence metrics on the `Settings` tab. The fact that you see results similar to Google for popular queries is a by-product of the fact that our ranking is trained using anonymous query-log. There is plenty of references to the methodology ( https://0…

That makes a bit more sense; I just read the blog posts. I'm concerned about the effects of optimizing against Google (namely, the extremely similar results); I don't think I understand the point of an alternative if it tries to replicate a competitor to this degree. The whole idea I was going for in that article was a diversity of information sources: if one engine isn't giving the results you want, try another. Rig…

You bring a very good point on the diversity of information sources, which is something we plan to attack in the near future with open ranking [0]

In my opinion having similar results to Google will facilitate adoption. After all, Google is pretty good for many types of queries (not all), and people in general have strong habits.

The fact that we are similar with our own index is great. It means that we have the power of deviating from it when needed, as we mature/evolve.

Allow me to repurposed your statement on why not use startpage if you want Google-like results: if tomorrow Google disappears (or for some reason becomes unusable), brave search will continue to operate as normal (similar to old Google). What will happen to searx or startpage? What till happen to ddg or swisscows if the provider turning bad is Microsoft. IMHO, no matter how much reranking or nice features they you put on top, unless you do not control the search results themselves, diversity can only be superficial.

Sorry for the "rant". Thanks a lot for the inputs and for updating the doc, appreciate it.

[0] https://brave.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/goggles.pdf

Re: Brave Search beta

#644

Post by mediocre-one »

Off topic, a link description from my first search page renders a bit different.

``` Jan 12, 2021 - var ytplayer = ytplayer || ...tps:\/\/s.youtube.com\/api\/stats\/atr?docid=7EqnoEljHCw\&ei=aL-MX5nwOfjOzLUPxLWJiAw\&len=206\&ns=yt\&plid=AAWx-WOvfFqbWF59\&ver=2\",\"elapsedMediaTimeSeconds\":5}},\"videoDetails\":{\"videoId\":\"7EqnoEljHCw\",\"title\":\"** ... ```

Re: Brave Search beta

#645

Post by tills13 »

jonathansampson wrote: post #396
tills13 wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Brave can anonymously check our search results against third-party results Why are we OK with these free services literally stealing Google results? Could you imagine the backlash if it was discovered that Google was doing the same for its results by stealing from DDG or another, smaller player?

Google is a Search Engine. Further, it displays content from sites directly in its results. This includes recipes, show times, sporting event details, and more. It has been argued that Google is stealing this data from smaller sites. Brave is (optionally, if you enable the feature) merely using Google (a more mature apparatus) as a means of learning to deliver better results to the user. The only way somebody is goin…

So Google taking data from sites and putting it on theirs is "stealing" but Brave doing that is different and Brave taking results from Google is considered "learning" or "training"? Hmm... I'm beginning to think people just hate Google because it's "cool" to have a negative opinion about it here.

Re: Brave Search beta

#647

Post by eyelidlessness »

Kiro wrote: post #560
eyelidlessness wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not clear who you’re saying is being too sensitive, or why you think so.

People who think it's disrespectful when a company representative do not preface every response with "I deeply apologize that you feel this way" or some equivalent nonsense. You even claim responding to something inaccurate is user hostile.

Huh? I wasn’t suggesting the person should apologize. I was suggesting they should ask about the user’s experience rather than telling it.

Re: Brave Search beta

#648

Post by Kiro »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #647
Kiro wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who think it's disrespectful when a company representative do not preface every response with "I deeply apologize that you feel this way" or some equivalent nonsense. You even claim responding to something inaccurate is user hostile.

Huh? I wasn’t suggesting the person should apologize. I was suggesting they should ask about the user’s experience rather than telling it.

Or they can just tell them facts instead of pretending to care what a random hater thinks. Just like they did. They also asked what bad UX they referred to, so they did what you wanted but it was still disrespectful apparently. If genuine feedback was met with "go fuck yourself" we could maybe call it user hostility but this was not.

Re: Brave Search beta

#649

Post by smaryjerry »

smoldesu wrote: post #639
smaryjerry wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not hostile, it’s literally a requirement in the US for crypto.

Maybe that's a sign that we should keep our browser and crypto wallets as separate entities, no?

Yea, but I mean who would want to cash out their pennies earned anyways. Only businesses/creators should be cashing out and they would need to KYC for any normal donations. Users should be just donating their pennies to creators and websites, which doesn’t take any KYC.

Re: Brave Search beta

#650

Post by bitL »

hnlmorg wrote: post #564
zzyzxd wrote: post #46

Previous related discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26328758 If things go as planned, this may become a paid, ad-free, zero-tracking search engine. I can't express how exciting this is to me. Over the past few years, I have made several attempts to replace Google Search with DuckDuckGo. But they have all failed and I always ended up changing the default search engine back to Google. I mean, DDG worked f…

DDG already includes Google (amongst others) in its results. It's not just a front end to Bing, like many assume (though I can't find DDG's article on the subject to directly cite). The thing with people who switch to DDG is, they do so consciously for privacy reasons but then forget that the reason G's results are so good is because they add little bits of context in through their profiling. But that doesn't mean th…

G's results are terrible for over 5 years and now they are reaching uselessness levels of Altavista.

No G, I didn't want to search for what you suggested, really not.

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