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“Great resignation” wave coming for companies

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Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#641

Post by lupire »

joshgachnang wrote: post #340
lordnacho wrote: post #52

I can tell you all the market for devs is white hot at the moment. I mean it was never cold, but right now seems to be insane. If the work-from-home thing has given you thoughts about what you like, now is the time to go. I see very few firms insisting on onsite work though, having interviewed with quite a few over the last few weeks. Even guys that I know would rather have people in the office and would pay them ver…

Every time a recruiter (especially internal) reaches out to me lately about "remote until after Covid" I politely tell them I have no intention of ever being forced back into an office every week and good luck with their search. Hopefully they'll realize quickly enough. Agreed on the salary uptick now. I'm not actively looking, but I'll entertain interesting companies. I've had a lot more companies say "yeah, we can…

What do you mean "base"? Why so specifoc for only one part portion of your comp?

Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#642

Post by ska »

pc86 wrote: post #203
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People tend to flip flop between the classical "wealthy people but not born into centuries old familial wealth on the top end and successful doctors, lawyers and financial professionals on the bottom end" definition and the "blue collar workers plus or minus a little" definition based on whichever is more convenient for the point they are trying to make that minute. Basically the GP is using the former definition and…

Most HN readers would be more than a little flummoxed at what "middle class" actually is in the US. The median household income is somewhere between $50-60k depending on where you look. The median individual income is a solid $15-20k less than that. And yet people will still nearly break their own spine trying to convolute a $200k cash comp tech worker as "middle class" because they happen to pay $4k/mo for a shared…

> at what "middle class" actually is in the US.

I think it is deeper than that, the country just has a confused relationship with the entire concept of class by both rejecting and embracing it.

Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#643

Post by lupire »

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #254
lordnacho wrote: post #52

I can tell you all the market for devs is white hot at the moment. I mean it was never cold, but right now seems to be insane. If the work-from-home thing has given you thoughts about what you like, now is the time to go. I see very few firms insisting on onsite work though, having interviewed with quite a few over the last few weeks. Even guys that I know would rather have people in the office and would pay them ver…

How is it for Product Managers and Product Owners? I've seen a slight bump in the past few weeks, but (anecdotally from my monitoring) the number of listings was still higher under Trump in 2019: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=Technical+Product+Managers+%26...

Is Product Owner a job?

Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#644

Post by djtriptych »

screye wrote: post #263

> Surveys show anywhere from 25% to upwards of 40% of workers are thinking about quitting their jobs. This number is meaningless without previous year trends. In my circles, everyone from 25-35 is simultaneously preparing to FIRE and no-one that's 35+ has actually changed jobs despite being 'financially independent'. Expressing intent to resign, and actually resigning are completely different things. (edit: to clarif…

If you can do it, I recommend it to everyone.

You don't really know yourself until you've spent a month or two with ZERO outside obligations. Quite hard to do. I did a couple of multi-month gaps in my 30s.

Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#645

Post by Retric »

mcguire wrote: post #625
jjav wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I am running the company, I would MUCH rather operate short-handed than "fix" my recruiting problems by lowering the bar. Nobody is talking about lowering the bar, but of putting the bar in the right zipcode. An extremely high bar of leetcode testing is irrelevant to the actual job, so that's an irrelevant bar.

And yet, those companies seem to be more successful than others with "more relevant" bars.

Leet code interviews only showed up late in these companies trajectories. Internally it’s no longer about what the company wants so much as what people inside the company want which presents huge conflicts of interest. Google for example has done significant research and found such practices wasteful, but internal culture is what it is.

In practical terms the FAANG companies internal processes are horrible and they can’t seem to innovate at all, but as long as they continue to print money there is zero reason to risk change.

Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#646

Post by mech422 »

akiselev wrote: post #574
rubicon33 wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is worth noting that software salaries are artificially inflated HEAVILY due to a general unwillingness or lack of interest in hiring overseas developers. The second this changes, the bottom drops out of software. I don't know if it will ever happen that big companies begin openly accepting overseas applicants but if/when it does, you can expect that it wont be for 100k. Suddenly when you consider the entire plane…

> It is worth noting that software salaries are artificially inflated HEAVILY due to a general unwillingness or lack of interest in hiring overseas developers. Because it's been tried before and for the most part it was an abysmal failure. I was just starting out doing some basic web freelancing as a teenager in the 2000s and even I got roped in to clean up an outsourced project after being outbid a year earlier by a…

I've been thru off-shorting with India, China, Russia...

I'm sorta wondering what country would be next. It has to have a large enough labor pool to fill the positions, and still be cheap enough to at least look good on paper..

Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#647

Post by esel2k »

majormajor wrote: post #538
Volrath89 wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm located in Colombia, and all my developers friends/acquaintances that speak English are already working for US companies. Some of them earning 100k+, but most of them earning about 50-70k. I'd say there is not a general unwillingness to hire overseas developers, on the contrary, if more people could speak english in south america US companies would be more than happy to hire even more here. There is a shortage in…

South America is an interesting one for a lot of US companies because the timezones line up much better with US-local folks than in any other continents. There are still other substantial collaboration challenges, but if more places move to be truly remote-first, those places will necessarily have solutions for that anyway.

Agreed. I am a product manager for a startup software acquired from Brazil. Nearly all engineering sit in Brazil (or some squads in India). I am the EU based PM that has to deal with the timezone issues and requirements- do I like it? Not really, but it is existing and the company might hire a an architect or tech lead on europe, the rest will remain outsourced. Generally speaking some of the developpers speak good English and so with Jira and Figma it works.

Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#648

Post by gen220 »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #290
AcerbicZero wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a buddy who disappeared for 6 months after our deployment, who we eventually found out was just hiking the Appalachian trail. It ended up being very helpful for him, and it’s something I’ve considered for myself on occasion. Good luck out there.

A cousin of my was a multiple-tour forward observer for the U.S. Army in the Korean War. He spent a lot of time doing extended hiking after that. I'm not sure if it was a result of his experience in Korea, but I get the impression he really wanted some extended alone time. I never asked because I didn't want to risk dragging him into some terrible memories.

It's a fairly popular activity for people in the military to get engaged in, for many reasons. Particularly people who were deployed in the field.

The back country is an environment where one is able to apply physical skills and tools, earned over years of experience, and to which most civilians attribute no value. The solitude is nice, however I think most veterans actually prefer company on activities like this, there just aren't many people who can cope with the mileage or the off-the-grid aspects.

I've never been in the military myself, but I'm a reasonably experienced backpacker. Discussions on the subject have made friends out of many coworkers, who had been deployed in the field while serving in the military.

You should ask your cousin about it, maybe even ask if you can join him sometime; he'd probably actually really enjoy you expressing an interest and wanting to tag along.

Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#649

Post by cweill »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #204

in 2017, I left my job of 27 years. Back then, the market was flooded with young folks out of bootcamps. So much so, in fact, that several companies had absolutely no problem treating me in quite shabby fashion, as I have committed the crime of Eld, along with a rather disturbing level of Provable Competence. These seem to be characteristics that immediately mark people for ridicule, humiliation, and indignity. Fortu…

I love this comment. Thank you for sharing this experience.

I also underestimated the impact of having my work burned in front of me after 2 years of overtime and sacrifice. The money afforded me some level of financial Independence which at least gives me the optionality to choose whether I want to suffer this again.

I'm thinking of following in your footsteps. Wish me luck!

Re: “Great resignation” wave coming for companies

#650

Post by rubicon33 »

xyzelement wrote: post #541
rubicon33 wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, they still persist on presenting leetcode riddles that have very little relevance to the job being interviewed for. If they were hurting that much for devs, you'd think they might lower the bar a little by not requiring a years study of leetcode.

If I am running the company, I would MUCH rather operate short-handed than "fix" my recruiting problems by lowering the bar. You don't have to agree with the bar the companies are using, but that is the bar they have converged on, and one that plenty of people are capable of passing. Would much rather compete for those people.

This always strikes me as the answer that a computer science reclusive would take. You would rather throw cryptic riddles and math puzzles at your lesser man, than pick up the phone and call their previous employer and ask how they performed, what projects they worked on, etc.

I would bet money that the latter is far more predictive of quality candidates than any leetcode problem you randomly pluck from the ether and expect them to solve under pressure.

But again, I expect nothing less from an industry that isn't exactly known for being good at human interaction.

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