Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever • Hacker News Board

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#641

Post by shard » Tue, May 04, 2021, 11:55 PM UTC

bobthechef wrote: post #616

hnfong wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When looking for a mate, animals often engage in so called "irrational" behavior to signal to the other party of their readiness and seriousness for mating. This is how, for example, peacocks get their ridiculous plumage. And thus, when somebody "irrationally" buys a "worthless" ring for a hefty amount, it signals to some extent that one is serious, committed and financially capable of the proposed marriage. It's oft…

I wanted to say you've committed the naturalistic fallacy, but actually, you've also misrepresented the meaning of mating behaviors in essential ways and made a few tacit and unwarranted jumps in between. Humans are rational animals. Yes, obviously we have natural inclinations (they aren't irrational, btw; they have a purpose and only when the inclination is disordered, deficient, excessive, or we behave in ways oppo…

Different cultures uses different displays to convey status. In cultures which do not place similar importance on a diamond ring, they may place equal importance on other displays, such as a large wedding banquet or purchase of a residence. Regardless of the specific expression of status in various cultures, I would think that they exist as a constant across all cultures.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#642

Post by shard » Tue, May 04, 2021, 11:58 PM UTC

lupire wrote: post #561

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #478

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Look at it as a proof of work. What matters is you burned a certain chunk of your life for her.

But why wouldn't she want a larger fancier diamond for the same work?

From a status signaling point of view, it's the difference between a real van Gogh and a reproduction from Dafen Village.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

#643

Post by shard » Wed, May 05, 2021, 12:06 AM UTC

kqr wrote: post #292

GordonS wrote: post #281

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I personally fully agree, but unfortunately not everyone thinks as logically as you or I. I talked about this with my wife recently, and even though she had a vague idea of the horrors that mined diamonds bring, she'd still continue to buy/want mined diamonds. She sees mined diamonds as more "real", and finds it difficult to believe that her diamonds in particular would be part of the problem - as if it somehow would…

There's also a common line of reasoning that roughly goes "well this particular diamond has obviously already been mined, so no additional harm is caused by me wanting it." Obviously you and I see that even that line of reasoning alone jacks up demand for an awful business, but not all people have the capacity to reason that abstractly about how their behaviour plays a part in a very big aggregate. ---- My wife did g…

Not sure where you are located, but I was able to get a local sole-proprietor jeweler to custom design a ring based on my specs to fit the diamond I had. I am in Southern California.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

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Post by shard » Wed, May 05, 2021, 12:32 AM UTC

bluedevil2k wrote: post #328

vagrantJin wrote: post #197

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"Okay class, child labour, a few thousand poor people dead, terrorist groups starving hundreds of thousands, destroying schools and libraries. That is where diamonds come from. How many would still want a natural diamond because diamonds are forever?" The elephant in that lecture hall was probably the hypocrisy. I think if you still raise a hand after hearing all that, the issue isn't branding at all. It's narcissim,…

Your comment shows your understanding of the diamond industry comes from a few articles you read on the internet, like an anti-vaxx person crying foul about vaccines. The facts, about 50% of the diamonds in the world come from Western countries like Australia, Canada and Russia. Another very large percentage come from stable African countries like Botswana and South Africa. There's no child labor in any of these coun…

That's very interesting. Do you have any links to some independent reporting regarding this?

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

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Post by throwaway_isms » Wed, May 05, 2021, 12:36 AM UTC

somedangedname wrote: post #638

throwaway_isms wrote: post #539

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>While the ring contains a mined diamond, it has quite a bit of sentimental value If I said it once, I have said it a million times, if your SO insists on a diamond from the ground as opposed to a lab, say fine, but I am getting my shots flying to Africa and will mine it myself. It won't matter if you bring back a opaque brown rock, with 0 marketing your SO would wear it with pride and most others would be jealous wh…

I love the idea of some valley-esque tech nerd turning up in a hellhole African diamond mine and getting merc'd by child laborers over his iPhone.

I see where you are going, but honestly the generalizations are pretty sad.

You might be surprised of the acceptance of an outsider showing a willingness to roll up their sleeves and experience something real not just sip drinks on a beach resort, even if it is for a day or two. Similarly if you met a child laborer or former child soldier outside those conditions, odds are you would have no idea of their personal experience.

I have met many child refugees that have more Worldly experience than most adults, yet if I did not represent them in asylum proceedings and meet them while they were detained, they would have simply appeared as children in my eyes. I have been part of law clinics that represented torture victims from some of the regimes you have in mind. The child soldiers, much less the child laborers, are not mercing people for their cell phones.

If you are a reader, I might suggest two books: 1) The Evolution of Deadly Conflict in Liberia; and 2) Storming the Court.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

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Post by Sebb767 » Wed, May 05, 2021, 1:13 AM UTC

mNovak wrote: post #572

akarma wrote: post #486

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I didn't view it as gaslighting, I viewed it in the way I said it: she may have not wanted to demand a 'genuine' diamond, so she left it open-ended. What woman wants to demand that when asked for preference? Demanding it would remove the sincerity and meaningfulness of the man's gesture. On the note of carnations for Valentine's Day, I'd view it in much the same way. Unless she's told you how much she adores and pref…

When the stakes are that high however, this is the definition of poor communication. No one's a mind reader, and how many other unspoken expectations are there?

This is basically obvious to the point of being a trope in our culture, so I'd argue it's actually not that hard. Sure, it's not perfect or well communicated, but it's not mindreader-level.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

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Post by y2kenny » Wed, May 05, 2021, 1:26 AM UTC

shatnersbassoon wrote: post #367

rodgerd wrote: post #66

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See also: the return of vinyl. Tube amplifiers. Yellow lighting. All from people arguing that poor reproduction of audio and natural light is superior!

Tube amplifiers are still where it's at for guitars. Still not beaten despite the attempts of digital signal processing. The reason is that the same thing that makes it a bad general amplifier makes it an excellent guitar amp.

Can you elaborate more? What are the things that are bad for general amp but good for guitar amp? Is the amplification non-linear in some specific ways and how does it help with guitar music? (I know nothing about guitar except what it looks like.)

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

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Post by smabie » Wed, May 05, 2021, 1:36 AM UTC

mNovak wrote: post #591

smabie wrote: post #384

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everyone would prefer natural diamonds to artificial ones. Why? Because natural ones are more expensive. It's literally like asking someone whether they prefer to have $20 or $40.

If your partner offers to buy you a $5 McDonalds cheeseburger or a $50 McDonalds cheeseburger, which would you accept?

Assuming a somewhat efficient market, I'll take the $50 cheeseburger.

Obviously I would want a more expensive thing than a less expensive thing from a partner. If we split up, I could sell the more expensive thing for... more.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

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Post by banbanbang » Wed, May 05, 2021, 1:44 AM UTC

bluedevil2k wrote: post #372

bkor wrote: post #337

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> The common complaint of "you can't sell them for what you paid" You and the other person gives loads of reasons why people giving that complaint are entirely right. The marketing is (partly) that it is valuable. In practice you'll not be able to resell it for a similar value.

I was hoping the takeaway would be “don’t buy diamonds from retail”. BlueNile is the best option here in the US for buying diamonds, usually around a 10-15% markup over wholesale.

No. Costco is the best option. You can also return for a full refund.

Re: Pandora says laboratory-made diamonds are forever

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Post by conductr » Wed, May 05, 2021, 1:46 AM UTC

bluedevil2k wrote: post #315

faet wrote: post #227

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Diamond prices are fairly stable, the issue is jewelers mark prices way up and most people don't know what a good price is. If a diamond goes for $5k wholesale, chances are they're looking to sell it for $10-20k. Since most people only buy 1-2 engagement rings in their lifetime they don't know what is a reasonable price. They "shop around" at three stores that are all owned by the same company. So they end up paying…

This is all correct! I've worked in the diamond business for almost a decade now and see people complain on HN and Reddit constantly about diamonds all while barely understanding the industry at all. The common complaint of "you can't sell them for what you paid" is a dumb complaint because they don't understand the HUGE markup the stones receive at retail. Here's the profit margins that the stones receive along the…

My wife is a jewelry buyer for big retail , this is accurate but people also don’t understand the overhead and cost associated with retail in general. It’s much more burdened that some B2B middleman. My opinion after countless conversations with her about the industry is the best model would be something like Trunk Club where they mail you a bunch of rings, you decided which to keep. It probably exists in some format, if not, the obvious problem is the value of the inventory and the potential for fraud/theft that it would attract. Unfortunately it’s essentially what’s been going on in our house since covid WFH, she had a million dollars of product sitting on a shelf in her home office.