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Flutter 2

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Re: Flutter 2

#641

Post by EvilEy3 »

yagodragon wrote: post #112

We're all complaining about how js is a bad language, tooling is a mess, and how the web is fundamentally built for documents and makes it hard to create app-like experiences. Now, Google comes and creates a whole new UI toolkit from scratch, couples it with a very beautiful SDK and component framework and offers a far better programming language than js could ever be but we're still nagging. I was also pretty disapp…

> Not to mention that Flutter is already better and easier to use than the existing native tools for both Android and iOS.

No, it's not. It's easier to start with, which is infinitely different from "easier to use". Once you get of beginners phase you see that native toolkits are equipped with battle tested solutions unlike Flutter.

With SwiftUI and Compose there's literally no upsides to Flutter except portability and even that Compose has potential to snatch.

Re: Flutter 2

#642

Post by mda »

danielscrubs wrote: post #631
murermader wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just tried it on an iPad Pro with Safari. Clicking the tiles does not work, scrolling does not work with the touchpad, and overall it feels very janky. They probably didn‘t care to optimize / make it usable with Safari.

Here is a dart benchmark: https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/... I don’t think it’s an issue with Safari.

Those benchmarks are meaningless. Implementations and algorithms ised are wildy differenet, not testing similar things.

Re: Flutter 2

#643

Post by EvilEy3 »

gurkendoktor wrote: post #487
jaegerpicker wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you a native mobile developer? I am (was I'm moving to ML/AI/Data engineering) and I don't think flutter is in any way easier or nicer than the native toolchains for mobile. Both Swift and Kotlin are better languages than Dart IMO, the IDE and tooling is far superior for both also. Flutter is faster but once to deploy a substandard quality of app for sure but matching the quality of a native app? That takes just…

I am a native app developer. I have only built one small app with Flutter. Here's where I disagree: - I've used Xcode since version 2 and like it, but in my opinion it's a worse developer experience than Flutter. Refactoring and code navigation were much better in both Android Studio and VS Code. - Flutter's hot reloading is fantastic. Meanwhile, SwiftUI previews seem to be built on the same technology as IBDesignabl…

> Dart is a dumb language like Go

Dart literally has reactivity build in, like RxJava or RxSwift. You have no idea what you're talking about.

Re: Flutter 2

#644

Post by c-cube »

russellbeattie wrote: post #105

I think Dart's new way of declaring variables as null safe by default is very interesting. If you want a variable to be able to hold a null, you have to explicitly say so. It seems a less heavy-handed version of how Golang handles nil, and much better than the standard way of declaring variables in most any other language. Maybe this is some common language thing I haven't seen before, but it seems an "obvious in ret…

It's already in at least kotlin and typescript, not to mention the languages that simply don't have null.

Re: Flutter 2

#645

Post by spdy »

Very interessting that i`m on the opposite side of many comments.

For the startup we just founded i was able to crank out a mobile app in less then 3 months without prior mobile or dart experience. Its fast and just works from day one. Certainly something i can recommend for every Fullstack Dev out there who wants to add mobile to his portfolio as 95% of all apps can easily be done in flutter.

The widget aproach for mobile is fantastic cant say it will work the same on the web but certainly on the desktop.

One thing flutter needs is time, that certain champions will be chosen by the comunity (state managment etc.) - see react

But is has a vibing ecosystem that especially empoweres people outside the western world to create beautifully widgets.

Re: Flutter 2

#646

Post by EvilEy3 »

mdoms wrote: post #529
heavyset_go wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how breaking accessibility with Flutter wouldn't mean that companies that use it on the web are violating the ADA.

I don't know what that is but I assume it's some kind of American nonsense I don't care at all about.

Accessibility is American nonsense?

Re: Flutter 2

#648

Post by EvilEy3 »

muxator wrote: post #308
dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> History has shown us over and over again, always bet on the web. This is a mantra on HN. But is it true? I don’t think it is if you’re trying to build a big product mainstream people will use. People want native apps. No one needs the apps to work in 25 years. The web is just part of the picture, an important part, but still just a part.

> People want native apps. I'll take a well done web page anytime over a native app.

> well done web page

That is an oxymoron.

Re: Flutter 2

#649

Post by coldtea »

ryandrake wrote: post #436
hanniabu wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why more resources aren't being put into Qt and making that easier to use or building a more "web-developer-friendly" abstraction layer on top.

I don't even fully understand why "cross-platform UI development" is such a holy grail. Is it that expensive to separate your business logic from UI and write the small UI layer in whatever the platform's "best practice" native language is? Is it that hard to find developers who know more than one programming language? With a lot of these frameworks and higher level abstractions, if you go off the toy-app happy path,…

>Is it that expensive to separate your business logic from UI and write the small UI layer in whatever the platform's "best practice" native language is?

Yes.

>Is it that hard to find developers who know more than one programming language?

Who said everybody has a team or this luxury?

Re: Flutter 2

#650

Post by coldtea »

ryandrake wrote: post #538
tiborsaas wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it that expensive to separate your business logic from UI and write the small UI layer Not sure what apps you've built, but usually that business logic is the minority of the codebase. The rest of the stuff is boilerplate, like drawing boxes, describing layouts, handling events, managing state. All this has nothing to do with business logic. Ideally, I want to write it once that I want a row of buttons what colo…

Last major one I worked on that needed to be cross platform was a GPS navigator, which had massive functionality in C and C++ under the hood, called from the platform-specific UI/event handling code through Objective-C-to-C++ on iOS, through JNI on Android, and directly on PC native platforms. It worked pretty well. The ratio of platform-specific to platform-independent code was very small, so it was not like writing…

>Guess I never realized this was a controversial approach to take!

No, just non-represenative of most apps, who are closer to CRUD than "GPS Navigator".

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