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I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

m.nautil.us

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Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#641

Post by robin21 »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #611
JoelMcCracken wrote: post #542

I read this a few hours ago and didn't decide to comment then. But I just have to. I just lost my brother-in-law to heroin overdose. He overdosed because he went into rehab, came out, and then used far more than his body could tolerate. This is unfortunately common. Not because he mixed it with alcohol or antihistamines or whatever. Overall, his entire life has been extremely tragic. He was a good guy at heart. He wa…

I'm sorry to hear about your brother-in-law. I've met many people who have had similar issues with alcohol. And yet, myself and many people are also able to use it in balance, in a way that contributes positively to our well-being.

The key point is that it’s rare to die acutely of alcohol. Rather, It’s slow and gradual leading to organ damage.

Heroin and opioids may be slow and gradual, but then it’s an insta kill.

Maybe food for thought though about how society views direct vs indirect causes of death.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#642

Post by robin21 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #610
frakkingcylons wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The circumstances of the overdose are important though. Many of them occur because the victim consumed it with another respiratory depressant like alcohol.

Exactly. The level at which one might "OD" fluctuates. So even if you know the dose, you can be wrong about your ability to handle it.

Seems there is a pattern in that none of the legal easily accessible drugs are particularly easy to OD on. Cigarettes, alcohol, caffeine, weed.

Prescription drugs are more controlled because easier to OD.

It does seem like acute danger is a big factor in scheduling. There’s always the argument that drugs were scheduled out of fear and bad science. But maybe as more knowledge was gleaned over the years, it just became sensible for other reasons to leave the laws as they are.

Honestly, society is better that you don’t have a large contingent of people abstaining. And the idea that people make their own choices - I think this is greatly affected by parental attitudes. So you could easily see a big jump in a few generations from changing attitudes.

When you think about the argument for decriminalization, the issue of public safety from addiction and overdose is not very much considered. Publix safety from crime, yes. But there is inevitably an increase in risk.

What’s good at least is that we have a baseline of usage and addiction from very strict drug controls. So we can always monitor if things get out of control via more legalization.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#643

Post by robin21 »

basch wrote: post #400
nimbius wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully agree. Carl is a white collar professor. The worst thing that can happen if his drug indulgence becomes a problem is he knocks over the water cooler or loses his job. I work a blue collar job servicing heavy diesel engines. Casual hard drug users are aggravatingly cavalier to work alongside. They forget important things constantly. They show up late and lose things often. You'll spend all day repeating things t…

But, the response here seems to be "this is too dangerous an idea to talk about, or consider" which seems really shitty. It's been 45 years since it was first established that heroin CAN be used safely when accompanied by a social ritual. Part of the problem IS the mindset and stigma around addiction, and that "insanely addictive drugs" have full power over people, and there is no ability to moderate their use, which…

Feels like it’s too dangerous a conversation to have in the open.

I think the mistake siliconvalleyites have is that they imagine everyone as intelligent and rational as they think they themselves are which leads them to encourage open discussion.

But it’s clear throughout history that all people are stupid sheep on occasion and their thinking needs to be curated in a way.

Therapeutic use for diagnosed conditions - interesting.

Safety for recreational use - interesting.

As a recreational activity - seems like we have enough fun already without adding more risk.

Just my 2cents.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#644

Post by robin21 »

jackric wrote: post #457
Natsu wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drugs still affect people during working hours even if used off-duty. I had to mummify a guy's hand because it was sliced open by glass, once. They were airlifted to the hospital because the bleeding couldn't be controlled. Another guy was doing something unsafe with his forklift, probably because he was in a hurry, right before Christmas, it rolled over on him and he died. That's why we couldn't keep people who were…

I have a solution to prevent this, which doesn't prejudice Mike for having a bit of weed 2 weeks ago camping. Also it will filter out those unfit to work from legal medication, or tiredness. Make workers do a 30 second ability test before going on shift. Design the test to measure reaction speed, short term memory, etc. [follow up thought] - Test must be immune to practice/muscle memory. Don't want a drunk passing th…

I think the point of the tests is like vaccination. It’s about reducing risk. And it errs on the side of caution. A test won’t catch every instance of drug use, but will catch a drug usage behavior pattern. You want people who are trustworthy to never do it because you can’t test everyone all the time. It’s more about personal responsibility.

A pre-shift only needs to fail once and you have a co-workers recklessness injuring another worker.

I wonder what unions think of drug tests? As a union member I might prefer that my coworkers were tested to be honest if I worked closely with them around heavy machinery.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#646

Post by foobiekr »

jboog wrote: post #211
SamBam wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> His assertion the 70% of all drug users including alcohol and prescription users aren't addicted if anything seems extremely low to me. I'd say the vast majority of my friends drink alcohol and are more than likely on prescription drugs but I don't think any of them are addicts Actually, I'm not sure. 30% of alcohol drinkers being addicted might be roughly right (though surprising to me as well). In the US, 50% of…

Jesus, I thought I drank too much but it's still hard to believe 10% of Americans drink the equivalent of 10 drinks EVERY DAY. On my worst weeks when I think "i need to cut back" I might average ~3 drinks a day, maybe 5 on a holiday bender.

When I was in grade school, in fifth grade, in the most clean cut suburb imaginable, one of my very close friends told me one morning as we walked through the neighborhood to our elementary school, that he had started adding some of his dad's vodka to his morning orange juice and asked me if i wanted to try it.

I did not, and I was completely stunned, but he said he knew he had to start now because then he could be strong like his dad. And he treated it purely like a chore, drinking every single morning for the next year and change, when we parted ways.

This guy was brilliant - his 4th grade science project was a to measure the lift of different airfoil shapes using as a testbed a hand-built, full-on wind tunnel made from a discarded cylinder vacuum cleaner. I think he dropped out of school in highschool.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#647

Post by pcthrowaway »

robin21 wrote: post #641
pcthrowaway wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry to hear about your brother-in-law. I've met many people who have had similar issues with alcohol. And yet, myself and many people are also able to use it in balance, in a way that contributes positively to our well-being.

The key point is that it’s rare to die acutely of alcohol. Rather, It’s slow and gradual leading to organ damage. Heroin and opioids may be slow and gradual, but then it’s an insta kill. Maybe food for thought though about how society views direct vs indirect causes of death.

Heroin overdoses are largely because of quality control issues that stem from criminalization. The drug is frequently cut with adulterants, and people shoot up because it's the most efficient way to use it.

If heroin was legalized, it could be standardized at a non-variable purity, and other methods of intake would be more popular. Lots of people were going blind from alcohol consumption during prohibition also.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#648

Post by JoelMcCracken »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #611
JoelMcCracken wrote: post #542

I read this a few hours ago and didn't decide to comment then. But I just have to. I just lost my brother-in-law to heroin overdose. He overdosed because he went into rehab, came out, and then used far more than his body could tolerate. This is unfortunately common. Not because he mixed it with alcohol or antihistamines or whatever. Overall, his entire life has been extremely tragic. He was a good guy at heart. He wa…

I'm sorry to hear about your brother-in-law. I've met many people who have had similar issues with alcohol. And yet, myself and many people are also able to use it in balance, in a way that contributes positively to our well-being.

Sure, I get it. And alcohol is a problem for many people, myself included. I can't drink at all without it turning out badly.

If I could pick something, it would probably be legalization + social support for people dealing with addiction, along with actual consequences for people who do bad things while on drugs, as opposed to what the police do now, which is basically throw up their hands and say "we cant put every heroin addict in prison".

I think the biggest issue I have with Heroin personally is how it seems to totally consume so many peoples lives and how completely unable they are to recover. There is a reason people say heroin addicts never really recover, they just take breaks.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#649

Post by jm__87 »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #633
jm__87 wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I am curious about with this research is how they would get reliable numbers for high functioning opiate addicts. Addiction is really a spectrum from "no dependence on the drug and no negative life consequences" to "high dependence on the drug and many negative life consequences". I'm sure that many people fall in the middle where they continue to responsibly live their lives while still being dependent on…

> is how they would get reliable numbers for high functioning opiate addicts. He's very clearly advising against getting addicted, something most opiate users accomplish.

So the article states that Carl Hart makes a claim that 70% of drug users don't meet the criteria for being a drug addict. I'm wondering how you could even get a reliable number for this for a drug like heroin, given the stigma attached to this drug and the fact that users themselves may be in denial that they are dependent on the drug. Someone can be meeting all their obligations in life and still be struggling with a drug addiction. If asked, I would imagine a lot of high functioning addicts would say they can stop whenever they want to, they just don't want to. Anyway, I may just have to give his book a read, it sounds interesting.

Re: I am a heroin user. I do not have a drug problem

#650

Post by [deleted] »

robin21 wrote: post #638
pvitz wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree! When he said that he meets his parental, personal [...] responsibilities, I thought I would like to hear if his partner and his children think the same. Maybe everything is really fine, but more often, the drug user doesn't realize how his (ab-)use affects his closest environment.

Even the phrasing is weird. To “meet my responsibilities” as of it’s a burden or a job. Not like: “as long as I can remain a great parent and partner”. Maybe I read too much into it.

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