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Apple has threatened to remove Amphetamine from the App Store

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Re: Apple has threatened to remove Amphetamine from the App Store

#641

Post by gambiting »

frombody wrote: post #630
gambiting wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because at a retail store the expectation is that if I see a box labeled "amphetamine" it better contain actual amphetamine. Obviously that's not acceptable, so it's not going to happen. When I buy software, I certainly don't expect to get drugs. When I buy a game called "Surgeon Simulator" I don't expect to receive actual surgeon training any more than I expect to get amphetamine after getting an app called amph…

You're creating a strawman argument. Imagine it were called heroin, and the app logo used a picture of a syringe.. is it still okay to you because there is no heroin in the app?

Of course it is. I'd be interested in hearing your argument as to why it isn't?

Speaking of a straw man argument - heroin isn't a legal drug anywhere in the United states. Like the author pointed out, millions of Americans take legal amphetamines every year, I'd wager a bet that legal users of amphetamines outnumber the illegal users 10,000 to 1 or ever more. But all of that is irrelevant - the app doesn't promote the use of amphetamines any more than GTA promotes committing grand theft auto.

Re: Apple has threatened to remove Amphetamine from the App Store

#642

Post by arghwhat »

crististm wrote: post #133
arghwhat wrote: post #7

Amphetamine isn't exactly an innocent name. Of all the app takedowns that occur, this one seems pretty normal and actionable. It's important to remember that reviews are superficial, and passing review is not at all the same as being compliant with the terms. Compliance is the burden of the submitter. Now, that app store monopoly makes terms unfair and arbitrary is another discussion entirely.

I agree with most (actually all) of your conclusions but... They start with the premise of culpability of a name. Which _is_ the problem in the first place. That culpability was not demonstrated but was simply declared by remote association. The same arbitrary judgement can be made for an innumerable list of other words without making that judgement neither correct nor just.

Direct association, not remote association. The name is an intentional reference to a hard drug.

The name isn't related to the functionality, but that's not what is claimed. This restriction on drug references is spelled out in the terms, making it valid and non-arbitrary.

That the terms themselves aren't "just" is a different matter altogether, but there is no argument for it but being valid.

Re: Apple has threatened to remove Amphetamine from the App Store

#643

Post by arghwhat »

AlexandrB wrote: post #90
arghwhat wrote: post #7

Amphetamine isn't exactly an innocent name. Of all the app takedowns that occur, this one seems pretty normal and actionable. It's important to remember that reviews are superficial, and passing review is not at all the same as being compliant with the terms. Compliance is the burden of the submitter. Now, that app store monopoly makes terms unfair and arbitrary is another discussion entirely.

There are gambling games in the app store marketed to children. You can sink 10s of thousands of dollars into gatcha games and they make every effort to make it easy and desirable to do so. If Apple wants to be a moral arbiter I'm not sure why it doesn't have a problem with those and even highlights them as "featured" apps from time to time.

That there are other violations slipping through is not valid legal argument.

That the priorities in the terms the developer is subject to does not match yours is not a valid legal argument.

The app store monopoly should fall, but until then, you're subject to the terms unless you get it declared unenforceable by a court, or convince Apple to change them.

Re: Apple has threatened to remove Amphetamine from the App Store

#644

Post by Grustaf »

Grustaf wrote: post #441
raverbashing wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For purporting themselves as worldwide champions of freedom of speech it's kinda funny to see how Americans react when that freedom of speech involves sexuality, cursing or substance use. Show as much violence in a movie as you want, but two swearwords and the rating is bumped up.

Their puritans. Remember when Janet Jackson showed her nipple during superbowl or something? The whole country went bananas.

*They're

Re: Apple has threatened to remove Amphetamine from the App Store

#645

Post by Grustaf »

ur-whale wrote: post #459
Grustaf wrote: post #439

Apple tend to be hysterically puritanical about these things (and lately, hysterically PC) but it’s their store so why not just follow their rules?

It's not Apple that's hysterically puritanical, it's the market they operate in. They don't give two f__ks about being politically correct, they're a corporation, their main concern is profit, and if you're not being hysterically PC in 2021, you're gonna loose money because of the radical minority that's ruining it for everyone.

I feel that Apple goes above and beyond. Like banning the confederate flag from all apps, I don't think people would have boycotted Apple if they hadn't done that. And Tim Cook's personal morals are very well aligned with PC, so I don't think it's just posturing.

Re: Apple has threatened to remove Amphetamine from the App Store

#646

Post by AsyncAwait »

zepto wrote: post #540
AsyncAwait wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App developers on what names are 'inappropriate', if you will.

I see that they made a commercial decision. I don’t see any moralizing or lecturing. Is there somewhere they are saying the name is morally wrong?

> Is there somewhere they are saying the name is morally wrong?

Literally that wording? No.

But that's the same as a politician doing favors for their biggest donor and then pretending there's no pay to play here since you didn't literally see him taking piles of banknotes in a smoke filled back room. Come on.

> they made a commercial decision

Yes but why? Because according to them it promotes objectionable items/behavior - that's a moral decision, it is also a commercial one but based on a moral judgment.

A commercial decision is not a class on its own. It is taken based on some factors. What were the factors here if not that Apple finds the name/icon morally questionable?

Re: Apple has threatened to remove Amphetamine from the App Store

#647

Post by bromonkey »

tomasf wrote: post #425
freehunter wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I download and use the app despite the name. I’m not okay with it, but I need the features it offers and there isn’t a better alternative with a better name. There used to be (called Caffeine) but it disappeared from the store and I’m not sure why. Just because people use the app doesn’t mean they like the name.

[Caffeine's original developer here] I removed Caffeine from the App Store when Apple started complaining that a click on a menu bar icon for an app without a dock icon must always show a menu (offering a Quit option). I wanted it to toggle the active state instead and show the menu on right-click/cmd-click.

This behavior design choice is exactly why I use caffeine :)

Re: Apple has threatened to remove Amphetamine from the App Store

#648

Post by Hnrobert42 »

Yetanfou wrote: post #378
Hnrobert42 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really believe the app developers should close their doors and stop making the app rather than change their name, all as part of an ideological fight? I just want to make sure that is really your good faith argument.

Yes, I really do believe there is no fighting a $2 billion (and counting) behemoth, other than by shunning it. If enough developers and users - in any order - leave their platform they will reconsider their stance. That is, after all, what it means to have (at least the semblance of) a free market where people make choices based on things like this. The same goes for the other digital empires, whether those be Facebo…

I appreciate that this is your genuine belief. For the record, I upvoted your response.

Re: Apple has threatened to remove Amphetamine from the App Store

#649

Post by op00to »

0xEFF wrote: post #359
webmobdev wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My advice is to immediately rebrand as gracefully and effectively as possible and use all that activist energy to effect the transition. Apple will definitely appreciate it if all of us would just shut up and let them screw us. While I appreciate your well-meaning advise to the author - pick your battles in life carefully - I'd like to add that using your anger constructively at some injustice is a positive move to…

Do you expect to see a box on a shelf of any retail store labeled, “Amphetamine” with a colorful picture of drugs? It’s entirely reasonable for the retail store to tell the vendor to rename the product or else it will be removed from the shelf.

I bought Microsoft Windows. It has no actual glass windows in it. Is it reasonable to demand the OS not be sold so to avoid confusion and false advertising?
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