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Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

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Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#641

Post by narrator »

throwaway6000 wrote: post #572
wmichelin wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm right with you. This is much worse than what Microsoft got in trouble for many years ago. They know what they're doing in wrong and I sure hope Epic gets their day in court. It's predatory and anti-consumer. Apple can eat shit.

Fortnite for Android just got axed from the Google Play Store too https://techcrunch.com/2020/08/13/fortnite-android-google-ki... Oops! Apple Bad, Google Good? ;)

On Android, you can download and install the apk directly from Epic Games: https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/mobile/android/get-... You just need to click through a few warning screens and it works fine.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#642

Post by Silhouette »

spanhandler wrote: post #638
Silhouette wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess we're going to remove a product category (the relatively safe, very consistent, managed platform you can use when you just want to use a computer and not also manage a computer) and call that consumer choice, then? Isn't the point here that Apple could still provide good security features in iOS and still provide their app store with whatever security or other vetting measures they consider appropriate and al…

> Users who want Apple's version of safety and security can stick with the default configuration on their devices and install apps only from Apple's store, just like today. > while users who insisted on sticking with only Apple's store wouldn't have the same range of apps available to them. Exactly. From my perspective my i-devices get worse if that happens, for exactly that reason. I'm stuck choosing between availab…

I understand your point, but I think your argument is based on an implicit assumption that may not be valid: that the items you like, the apps in this case, will still be available at all if the restrictions continue. For example, apparently even if you were able to buy the Apple device you want with the restrictions you want, you still can't get Fortnite on it now. The difference between your position and mine is that in mine, you don't get to choose whether everyone else is limited in the same way, and neither does Apple.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#643

Post by Accacin »

throwaway140820 wrote: post #543

Apologies for the extreme swearing that ensues. Wow, I would have hoped for better support from the HN community. Instead there are apologists after apologists. So what if Epic is big. Really, seriously shouldn't we have had alternative app stores available form the official ones. Why is this even a point of debate? All the time we hear stories of people one of our own getting fucked by these app stores and their lor…

Correct. For me there are valid arguments for a walled garden (providing users can opt out) but this isn’t about any of that. This is about Apple not getting paid, the users are not ‘winning’ in this standoff.

Apple are prepared to fuck over their users for them not getting paid, and I can’t see a good argument for anyone thinking that this is okay.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#644

Post by BlueDingo »

spanhandler wrote: post #633
throwaway140820 wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry, I don't understand. Will you be suddenly forced to install all the shit from all the sources? Nobody is forcing you right? How does your position change with the new one? Are you arguing having firefox and ublock on iphone will suddenly make it more pleasant to browse the web and you don't like it? I am sure you are not.

> I am sorry, I don't understand. Will you be suddenly forced to install all the shit from all the sources? Nobody is forcing you right? How does your position change with the new one? No, but it may mean some apps will use different payment prompts & systems, different cancellation systems for subscriptions, have different return policies, and so on, and it may mean that sometimes an app I want requires me to either…

Why would a professional device for adults ship with the same locked down protections of a kindergarten computing device?

Your children are not in danger from antitrust enforcement.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#645

Post by y2bd »

dilse wrote: post #499

Genuine question: Do flight travel booking companies pay commission to Apple for any bookings made via App? If not, isn't this a differential treatment?

IIRC Apple doesn’t require in-app purchases for “physical” goods. Obviously a JPG of a barcode that lets me on a plane or into a movie theater itself isn’t a physical good, but I guess it’s in service of one.

There are a couple of exceptions though for digital goods (I think Amazon has an exception for their Video service, but not Kindle. People rumor this was part of a deal to get Apple TV onto Amazon Fire products.)

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#646

Post by thdrdt »

throwaway140820 wrote: post #543

Apologies for the extreme swearing that ensues. Wow, I would have hoped for better support from the HN community. Instead there are apologists after apologists. So what if Epic is big. Really, seriously shouldn't we have had alternative app stores available form the official ones. Why is this even a point of debate? All the time we hear stories of people one of our own getting fucked by these app stores and their lor…

Update policies on Android (I want to use my phone until it is completely broken) made me start to look at Apple. But then I realized it is not an alternative.

In another thread someone compared Apple with a dictatorship and this is right. Maybe you will feel safe but there is no freedom. And when you don't do as the dictator pleases you are in trouble.

Companies get too big and too powerful. Some say this is the beginning of a new world order, like the industrial revolution changed how the world was ordered.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#647

Post by eanzenberg »

throwaway140820 wrote: post #543

Apologies for the extreme swearing that ensues. Wow, I would have hoped for better support from the HN community. Instead there are apologists after apologists. So what if Epic is big. Really, seriously shouldn't we have had alternative app stores available form the official ones. Why is this even a point of debate? All the time we hear stories of people one of our own getting fucked by these app stores and their lor…

Don’t force shit onto every Apple user. One app store is for security and privacy. Apple curates and that costs money. I don’t want my and my families and friend’s ios devices turning into the pile of hot garbage android devices. If you don’t like it, leave! Or make your own device to sell!

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#648

Post by eanzenberg »

throw6969420 wrote: post #640
jacobsenscott wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I truly believe apple pays people to comb through HN and down vote any comment critical of apple. The simple fact is that apple has done more than any other company in the history of computing to quash the freedom to control your own computing devices. It is impossible to fight apple in the way we fought microsoft years ago - by building out a good opensource ecosystem. The entire reason for the app store is to stop…

I’m paid to be here, but not by Apple, that I’m aware of anyway. There is no way to stop it. Even tying a LinkedIn profile requirement like someone else mentioned isn’t an option. I’ve got thousands of accounts active on most social media platforms and discussion-based sites. Puppeteer + mobile proxies makes this simple these days and completely undetectable. I’m posting it from a setup now!

Probably Google? Never seen a bad story of them on HN get traction.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#649

Post by abc-xyz »

throwaway140820 wrote: post #543

Apologies for the extreme swearing that ensues. Wow, I would have hoped for better support from the HN community. Instead there are apologists after apologists. So what if Epic is big. Really, seriously shouldn't we have had alternative app stores available form the official ones. Why is this even a point of debate? All the time we hear stories of people one of our own getting fucked by these app stores and their lor…

I think the timing is very unfortunate. Shortly after Trump’s executive order targeting Tencent and ByteDance (hopefully with more to come) then Epic (heavily backed by Tencent) launch an attack against Apple.

Tinfoil hat on: Apple is probably worried that if Trump gets re-elected then they would be forced out of the Chinese market unless they allow third-party app stores where people can download the Chinese apps that Trump would force them to remove. Apple will therefore opt to allow third-party app installations (which would hurt them a lot if we ignored the Chinese market) rather than lowering their fees or allowing third-party payment providers.

Re: Apple just kicked Fortnite off the App Store

#650

Post by danShumway »

spanhandler wrote: post #639
danShumway wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Google was forced by the EU to provide prominent search engine options during Android setup, did that mean that Google as a search engine went away? Did all of your search results became crap because DuckDuckGo was available on the device now? Or were consumers free to keep using Google search the same way they always had, and was there literally no downside at all to the people who wanted to keep using Google?…

> A) Consumers want Apple's walled garden and Apple is meeting their needs, > and > B) The option to install apps from a 3rd party source would immediately mean that consumers all jump ship from Apple's official store and there would be no incentive for companies to release apps on the official store, and security on the device would be ruined forever. > Both of those arguments can't be true at the same time. If you'…

> the concern isn't that users will jump ship from the App Store [...] but that developers will

What is the practical difference to you, as a user, between:

A) Not being able to install Fortnite because it's only available on a third-party iOS storefront,

and

B) Not being able to install Fortnite because it's not available on iOS.

If apps jump ship from the official store, you personally as a security-conscious user won't be able to install them. But if apps jump ship from iOS, you also won't be able to install them. So who cares if developers move off the official iOS store? Aren't they already free to do so today?

----

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the difference is that (deep down) we all know that Epic is right, and Apple really is one half of a duopoly -- a half that controls over 50% of the entire mobile app store revenue in the US -- and that it would be insane for an app like Fortnite to drop iOS. I think the difference between the scenarios above is that (deep down) both you and I know that Fortnite isn't really free to abandon iOS as a platform, and that the stranglehold iOS has over the market is the only reason apps like Fortnite are on iOS in the first place.

We know that given the choice, consumers and developers would both choose a more open device. And we know that the only reason the closed ecosystem works at all is because many developers and users don't have a realistic choice about whether or not to accept Apple's terms.

The reason people see the two scenarios I list above as different is because, yeah, all of us on HN do actually know that Fortnite doesn't really have the option to walk away from Apple devices, and without a 3rd-party store Epic will be forced to agree to pretty much any terms that Apple requires -- they have no negotiating power. And once we admit that, then it becomes a lot more obvious why developers are asking for some kind of regulation around app store policies.

If dropping iOS and supporting only Android or PC was actually a realistic, sufficient option for most developers, then you wouldn't be worried that they'd all jump ship the moment they had a 3rd-party store as an option on iOS -- those developers would have already left the Apple app store (and iOS) behind.

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