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I interviewed at six top companies in Silicon Valley in six days

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Re: I interviewed at six top companies in Silicon Valley in six days

#641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did cover those points. As I said, the prestige is misguided (in the case of FAANG) and you don't need to go down the FAANG route to have access to higher quality opportunities. Those companies sure want you to believe what you're claiming because it means they get the first bite of the cherry but the reality is very different (from my experience anyway).

> The prestige is misguided (in the case of FAANG) I strongly disagree, and I'm not sure why you would say that. I've heard that working at Google is a golden stamp on your resume, and you will be able to easily get a job at any other company. You'll probably even be able to skip the coding challenges in any future interviews.

outside of Silicon valley... maybe.

In Silicon Valley, everyone knows that it is fake prestige and the fact that you worked for a FAANG doesn't really mean anything. I both know excellent and mediocre candidates coming out of FAANGs. It literally carry no information besides the fact that you are probably more attracted to prestige.

Re: I interviewed at six top companies in Silicon Valley in six days

#642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The prestige is misguided (in the case of FAANG) I strongly disagree, and I'm not sure why you would say that. I've heard that working at Google is a golden stamp on your resume, and you will be able to easily get a job at any other company. You'll probably even be able to skip the coding challenges in any future interviews.

outside of Silicon valley... maybe. In Silicon Valley, everyone knows that it is fake prestige and the fact that you worked for a FAANG doesn't really mean anything. I both know excellent and mediocre candidates coming out of FAANGs. It literally carry no information besides the fact that you are probably more attracted to prestige.

Oh, that's interesting! I think "fake prestige" might be a bit harsh, and I'm sure that doesn't apply to the very senior engineers who earn > $500k per year.

A few years ago I was contacted by a Google recruiter, but I realized that it was going to be a very junior SRE role, so I wasn't interested in that. I could have put Google on my resume, but that probably wouldn't have been very impressive.

Re: I interviewed at six top companies in Silicon Valley in six days

#643
When I see engineers in their late 40s, 50s etc being harsh on algorithm interviews, I often wonder is it because they failed to keep up with changing times and are now playing victims. I mean, IT industry is nothing like what it was in the 70s and 80s when these people started out. Back then, it was still rather nascent and almost all business problems could be solved by gluing together existing tools (I was born in the 80s so I am only speculating based on what I have read). May be that's how it is even now. They were all essentially glue engineers doing some type of CRUD job. For them, the more tools they knew the better they were at their jobs. It is a bit amusing how this glue job is usually oversold as 'architecting' or 'system design'.

However, times have changed. Since late 1990s, the industry has become a lot more aggressive. While the CRUD shops exist, there are more and more companies who produce products that need engineering from ground up. Some of these are truly innovative but many simply reinvent solutions. The kind of funding these new age companies with NIH syndrome get allows them to afford quite a bit of reinventing of the wheel, a wheel that suits their purpose specifically. In this scenario, one needs to know fundamentals of CS, so having interviews of this nature is justified. The candidate must be aware of the sort of company they have applied to and know what to expect. There is no point ranting after they fail.

That said, I do have my objections to these sort of interviews. I am in my mid thirties and what I do is 50-50 in terms of over all architecture and low level details. I am currently looking for a change and every time I see ds-algo mentioned in the job description I feel disappointed.

Firstly, the cargo cult interviewing is quite enraging. I mean, just because a mega corp with NIH syndrome does tough algo-ds interviews because they arguably need it, the CRUD shops following suite is ridiculous. They are glue job companies with CRUD jobs that need glue job engineers whose need to know CS fundamentals will be limited to reading the label on the libraries they use, if they advertise the ds and algo they use in their implementation.

Secondly, even if its a NIH mega corp, I dislike how the interviews automatically filter out experienced good engineers. The sort of questions asked can only be answered by three kinds of people - recent graduates, those who have written ds-algo libraries at their job before, or those who study them just for the interview. I feel the third kind is a sham as its worse form of rote learning without applied knowledge. People like me who possess a lot of knowledge through real world experience on a lot of things and can build a lot of things from scratch, basically generalists, but can't write code to balance a binary tree on whiteboard in 5 minutes feel almost discriminated. Why can't where be a middle ground where we discuss the solution strictly qualitatively without having to answer it as if it were a college exam? I think this is how it ought to be for mid career engineers.

I have had my share of both kind of interviews that has left me extremely disappointed. I have realized that people like me are best suited to work at medium sized product companies whose name not many have heard of. I used to work at one such and had tremendous success, and I am exclusively looking for such now.

Re: I interviewed at six top companies in Silicon Valley in six days

#644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I see it, the difficult algorithm interviews screen for people who are motivated enough to spend 100s of hours studying for an interview, or know this stuff for some other uncommon reason. Both types are acceptable hires.

Yes you get drones and autistic savants. Great!

black pill: that's what they want

Re: I interviewed at six top companies in Silicon Valley in six days

#645
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

plenty of people have been talking about the negatives of facebook long before the 2016 election w.r.t privacy, mental health, and whether we actually benefit from having this kind of tool as part of our culture

There's no such thing as "our" culture as a homogenous, averaged mass. I benefit from FB. If you don't, that's fine, don't use it. But don't tell me what's best for _me_.

Cultures aren't homogenous, but there are things that are bad for communities but good for individuals. Successful thieves, for example. Pretty much any tragedy of the commons, really.

Is it so hard to extend those ideas from there?

Re: I interviewed at six top companies in Silicon Valley in six days

#646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first reaction when inplementing anything more than a very simple algorithm is to google the best way to do it. Of course, I could probably come up with a way to do it by myself. I could probably even come up with an efficient way if I spent an afternoon/day on it. But why do that when I can google it, and get 3 blog posts and 2 stack overflow answers detailing the different options and the trade offs between them…

> But why do that when I can google it, and get 3 blog posts and 2 stack overflow answers detailing the different options and the trade offs between them, most likely even with an implementation I can base mine off of? A lot of resources out there are wrong, inaccurate, or not reasonable for your particular context, and it requires a reasonable amount of algorithmic intelligence to be able to sniff out what's appropr…

> A lot of resources out there are wrong, inaccurate, or not reasonable for your particular context, and it requires a reasonable amount of algorithmic intelligence to be able to sniff out what's appropriate.

Right, and having that algorithmic intelligence is key part of me being a good developer. But testing how someone implements an algorithm in time-scarce circumstances is not a good test of that kind of intelligence because it is likely to favour people who have been exposed to that particular algorithm before (even if they only rote-learnt information about it - as many interviewees seem to do in practice) over people who have the capability to think deeply and reason correctly about it, but have not previously been exposed to that problem.

Re: I interviewed at six top companies in Silicon Valley in six days

#647
post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote a custom HashMap for Java, used BFS and DBS on graphs, wrote a top down custom parser, custom string searching algorithms to solve real business problems. I would rather work with someone who knows how neural networks really work rather than who knows pytorch or keras, because they can be learned rather easily. In some industries knowledge of algorithms can be more valuable than knowing a myriad of frameworks…

> In some industries knowledge of algorithms can be more valuable than knowing a myriad of frameworks that change every few years any way. This is exceedingly rare... so you wrote a HashMap implementation in Java?? None of the custom maps discussed [here]( http://java-performance.info/hashmap-overview-jdk-fastutil-g... ) were enough? It must be a really rare problem you're working on if there's no library that provid…

I agree that these problems are rare, but they do come up, at least they did in my experience. As you alluded general programming and software design is not the same as knowing how a particular framework works. The former is much more valuable, but at the same time if someone is able to understand in depth a complex technology/framework he/she is most likely great at general programming and software design.

Re: I interviewed at six top companies in Silicon Valley in six days

#648
post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote a custom HashMap for Java, used BFS and DBS on graphs, wrote a top down custom parser, custom string searching algorithms to solve real business problems. I would rather work with someone who knows how neural networks really work rather than who knows pytorch or keras, because they can be learned rather easily. In some industries knowledge of algorithms can be more valuable than knowing a myriad of frameworks…

There are people who really know how NN work? I thought there were only people who know how to implement them ;)

You right, but I would say we do know how artificial NN work, because we are able to construct them, but we don't actually know why they work ;)

Re: I interviewed at six top companies in Silicon Valley in six days

#649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, almost everyone hates it when you show them they are wrong. Especially in the setting where they are supposed to be judging you , remember? And even in normal settings it pays to think about how some critique will be received by the other side. It's a slippery slope in the interview... For me it would raise red flags if the flaw was pointed out in an inappropriate manner. After all, this is the person who…

> they are supposed to be judging you, remember? It's actually supposed to be mutual judgement. But I agree: be respectful if you decide to drop a remark about the relevance of the question. There are enough reasons to treat people with respect even if you can afford to turn them down.

> It's actually supposed to be mutual judgement.

Agreed, I was being sarcastic.

Re: I interviewed at six top companies in Silicon Valley in six days

#650

I find it shocking that Facebook would still be considered as a peer to these other companies in terms of desirability as an employer. I would only accept a position at Facebook, which seems to be building a fundamentally destructive product while going out of its way to behave unethically in many dimensions, if it was an absolutely last resort to pay the medical bills of some dying loved one or something. Why would…

There are plenty of people who feel the same way about all the useless startups in SV that exist solely to take VC money. At least Facebook actually provides something of value to the hundreds of millions people who use it.

Really? There are people who feel the same way about extracting money from rich VCs as they feel about the harm Facebook does worldwide? Seriously? Who and where are these people? Where can I see their widespread and articulated stance on the equivalence of those things?
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