Live data from Hacker News

Grok 4.5

x.ai

631–640 of 1001 posts

Re: Grok 4.5

#631
post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has it occurred to you that _all_ model providers are actively trying to shape their models' replies to fit their preferred political narratives?

It's not the preferred political narrative of the model that I worry about. It's how brazen they are about altering their models to achieve it. It makes me wonder what else they're altering. I have trust issues with OpenAI and Anthropic as well, but with those companies, at least I know their motives are purely profit driven. I don't have that assurance with xAI.

You mean as opposed to Gemini's "subtle" woke push with diverse nazi soldiers?

Re: Grok 4.5

#632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is playing a different game. I don't really know what game they're playing, but they're not trying to beat Claude Code. They have coding capabilities and Antigravity, but I'd be surprised if it's much more than an afterthought. They're focusing on efficiency, models at the edge, human interaction, image and video, etc. in ways Anthropic, in particular, is not. Google wants its AI to be pervasive in everyone's…

If I had to summarise Google’s effort it would be: stay close but let the others burn themselves out. Position for the long game until you see something worth betting the company on. Apple similar, without the “stay close” bit.

That might just be how it will turn out, but not because it's Google's strategy. They are just too big to fail.

Re: Grok 4.5

#633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is playing a different game. I don't really know what game they're playing, but they're not trying to beat Claude Code. They have coding capabilities and Antigravity, but I'd be surprised if it's much more than an afterthought. They're focusing on efficiency, models at the edge, human interaction, image and video, etc. in ways Anthropic, in particular, is not. Google wants its AI to be pervasive in everyone's…

Google seems to become a dead business very soon. Search traffic is being split between AI and social networks and google is bad on both fronts. Its AI proposition is more or less like the Google Plus. Nobody really wants it but they know about it because google pushes it everywhere it can.

> Its AI proposition is more or less like the Google Plus. Nobody really wants it but they know about it because google pushes it everywhere it can.

Citation needed. The gemini app has 750 million MAU, hardly a dead business.

Re: Grok 4.5

#634

I just don't think that I can ever trust an xAI model knowing that they are actively trying to shape its replies to fit a political narrative. How can you trust their models to be reliable in a business setting with the foreknowledge that their models are being nudged around in the backend?

They all do that. Ask leading models about israel palestine conflict for instance

Re: Grok 4.5

#635
What I don't get is how does one use it. Only through API?

I don't really understand what Grok Build is? Is it an API? A CLI? What?

Re: Grok 4.5

#636

The anti-Musk stuff would qualify as brigading in nearly any other community. It shocks me that people have such a visceral, irrational engagement with anything in Musk's orbit. I probably shouldn't have, but I expected better from the HN crowd for some reason. It's an excellent model. GPT 5.4/5.5 level, some things better, others not, but extremely fast. A wonderful technical improvement. If a Chinese company or ran…

50 years ago we had religion for people to have something common to believe in. Now we have this. I think most people want a common enemy/scapegoat and an in-group presence. I doubt its about morals but more about self identity.

A poster who reactively posts "but Elon is a Nazi!!1!" does it not do out of care for Jews but more for establishing their own self identity. Within the mini-group, the poster aims to get the moral high-ground and status by speaking out against Nazi salute. It is absolutely not a moral thing because Natanyahu himself wrote a tweet vindicating Elon.

The same type of people show excessive concern towards AI's climate impact, "big tech bad" etc.

Ultimately its a new religion replacing the old one.

Re: Grok 4.5

#637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People, even in tech, even in AI, are allowed to have opinions that differ from yours. Cancellation doesn't work anymore: you can't get away with presenting your side as normal and other side as deviant and let ostracism win your idea's battles without your idea having to fight for itself. The reason it's cringe is that you can really only understand an idea by placing it in tension with other ideas. Remove your idea…

Free speech is important, but the truth is pretty important, too. I'm fine with calling liars out. The blizzard of BS we live in should have thoroughly disproved the idea of the "truth will win in the marketplace of ideas" and "sunlight is the best disinfectant". Fox "News" and its ilk are thriving. The problem is the complete asymmetry of effort between lying and telling the truth. The truth requires research and in…

You can't ascertain what's true without free speech.

Suppose you start with a true belief. This belief, like any other, has to propagate from person to person to sustain itself. The truth is messy. During each hop, people present the best, cleanest version of the truth in the belief. After enough hops, the belief stops being the best version of the truth and starts being a truth-flavored falsehood.

If you want to optimize for your beliefs being true, you can't just prohibit their opposite. Even if you don't care about truth per se and want only for your beliefs to spread fastest, you should want to make sure your beliefs stay true-ish, because if you decouple your beliefs from truth, then they become so mutated and useless that they prompt people to whom you propagate the idea to seek out other ideas on their own.

Yes, it's easier than ever for bad ideas to spread. What people who use words like "disinformation" miss is that this ease cuts both ways. What makes it easy for opposite beliefs to spread makes it easier for false mutations of their own beliefs to spread.

Even if you can ban opposite beliefs, you can't ban mutated forms of your own beliefs: attacking the mutants looks like attacking the truth forms, yet, because the mutations smooth over the messy parts of the truth, the mutant versions of your belief will out-compete the original within the bubble of your ban.

Truth alone doesn't stop the mutants because it operates on long time horizons and small gradients. Only strong contrast can distinguish truth from appealing falsehood, and only competition with opposite beliefs can establish it. Trying to establish this contrast within your belief's framework against a near-mutant looks like gatekeeping, pedantry, or disloyalty. The near-mutant is always too close to its parent to justify the social cost of an all-out fight.

Furthermore, once a mutant version of your belief has taken over, the original version itself looks like heresy. Deformation occurs in small steps because it happens unwittingly in response to intuitive incentives. Reformation occurs in large steps because it happens wittingly in response to observing incoherence. You can't ban near-mutants, but you can ban far-mutants, and reformers trying to jump from the endpoint of a long line of near-mutations back to the original form get the original form and themselves banned.

So now what? If you think it's hard to defend your true beliefs against opposite beliefs, think how much harder the job will be once you can't wield truth as defense. By default, beliefs win and lose as they become extractive and appealing in cycles. Truth allows an idea to win despite being costly. Without truth as a benchmark, why would anyone prefer your belief over upstarts that promise fewer rules and more fun?

If anything, people will prefer opposite beliefs to yours because you've been the one calling false beliefs true just because they descended from true beliefs and because you're the one telling them to shut up and get in line. Even if you start out with the true belief and the opposite beliefs are all false, you lose.

Re: Grok 4.5

#638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the preferred political narrative of the model that I worry about. It's how brazen they are about altering their models to achieve it. It makes me wonder what else they're altering. I have trust issues with OpenAI and Anthropic as well, but with those companies, at least I know their motives are purely profit driven. I don't have that assurance with xAI.

Implying you prefer your manipulation to be subtle an not discussed

This stuff is measurable

Re: Grok 4.5

#639
post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has it occurred to you that _all_ model providers are actively trying to shape their models' replies to fit their preferred political narratives?

Yes, but some narratives are more closely tied to the racist and regressive views of their current funder

And some are more tied to the globalist and progressive-for-the-sake-of-progress views of their current founder. Why not let users pick their poison?
Post reply on HN