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It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#631

Post by [deleted] »

roryirvine wrote: post #593
altcognito wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely use this, but if you want to navigate to specific window on an app, prepare to be annoyed. MacOS doesn't really have a window manager, it has an app switcher, and a really inconvenient way to pick the context of your workspace.

cmd + ` switches between windows of an app. Unfortunately, that's the most awkward key combo imaginable on non-US keyboards. Still better than having to mouse down to the (hidden) dock, but only marginally. GNOME does it right, and uses super + . Works the same as the Mac in the US, but is infinitely better in the rest of the world. (you might be able to remap it on macos using an undocumented 'hidutil' command, but…

[deleted]

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#632

Post by dismalaf »

It's hard to justify Framework 12 existing. Framework 16 too.

What's the point of making 3 different modular laptops where most of the pieces are specific to the model? You can't move the mobo or any component really from one to the other except for the USB pieces.

What they really should have done is make all the models take the same mobo, batteries, keyboard, etc..., and then made a specific screen/hinge to turn the 13 into a tablet.

Instead they fractured their own ecosystem and only the 13 (now 13 pro) feels like a polished product.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#633

Post by [deleted] »

thefossguy69 wrote: post #477
wwalexander wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cannot be traversed with keyboard shortcuts Yes, it can: https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/mac-window-tiling-i... You can define additional shortcuts in Keyboard settings: https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/create-keyboard-sho...

>> > cannot be traversed with keyboard shortcuts > Yes, it can: https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/mac-window-tiling-i ... The first link is about arranging/tiling the windows. There are zero keyboard shortcuts to move the focus from the window on left to the window on right. It looks like someone used the equivalent of monitor codenames for keyboard shortcuts. Some operations don't even have a keyboard shortcu…

[deleted]

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#634

Post by musicale »

thefossguy69 wrote: post #424
commandersaki wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny it’s the opposite for me. What if I want to switch between desktops of multiple users; easy with fast user switching, not really a thing in Linux (yeah I’m sure it can be hacked up, but bleh).

The biggest papercut preventing me from being productive on macOS is it's horrible window management which cannot be traversed with keyboard shortcuts like one does in WMs like bspwm and others on Linux and that absolutely insane ~500 ms delay in setting the focused window when moving between virtual desktops. For some reason, Apple's ideal desktop experience is tailored around focusing on one application at a time.…

> horrible window management which cannot be traversed with keyboard shortcuts

Window focus shortcut: System Preferences > Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts > Keyboard

Other window shortcuts: System Preferences > Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts > Windows

See "Keyboard focus shortcuts" etc. at: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102650

And: https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/mac-window-tiling-i...

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#635

Post by kwdev »

regexorcist wrote: post #413
whimblepop wrote: post #83

I was seduced by Apple Silicon after experiencing the exceptional battery life and performance. Those things are great, as are the screens and the speakers. But I'm still excited about the Framework 12 because I don't love macOS. I don't need an alternative to beat Apple on every line of the spec sheet. I just need them to align with my values, support Linux well, and cross a certain "good enough" threshold. The late…

I'm constantly surprised by just how bad macOS is as a Linux user. I currently have to deal with it sometimes as I run my local LLM server on it and it's painful. That said the hardware is great, I run Asahi on another M1 MBP and Linux makes it the best laptop I've ever used.

This. Working with a mac again feels so limiting and the amount of stupid UX is actively hurting my productivity. Sure can be just practice, but the ability to customize my Linux machine exactly to how I like to work was so powerful.

There are also what I would call bugs that I don't understand how they are a thing. Like how window/desktop switching is slow to change app focus.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#636

Post by horsawlarway »

tracker1 wrote: post #100
horsawlarway wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's pretty much almost always been the case with Mac laptops though I think that's a Rosy take. I remember the macs from before the intel generation, and they were hardware garbage (there's a reason they finally gave up and went to intel) Then the intel macs were nice looking exteriors with very lackluster internals. So for a long time it genuinely was an overpriced laptop from a performance point of view. I'd s…

I guess it's hard for me to judge, I never really used Macs during the PowerPC era... I used the prior generation when I was at school sometimes, but not much. Mostly a PC user most of the time until well after the Intel transition. But even if the performance wasn't great, they did have very good displays, and touchpads with good keyboards and better than most speakers. A lot of laptops didn't come close to that por…

yeah, not disagreeing about the competition from apple. The Neo is the first machine from them that I really can't rag on at all for the "I browse the web and occasionally edit documents" user.

It's a solid machine at a surprisingly reasonable price from Apple, and too many vendors for Windows just release absolute garbage at that pricing tier.

Will I ever use it? Nope. Not a machine for me. But it's hard not to suggest for a non-technical user on a tight budget.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#637

Post by musicale »

roryirvine wrote: post #593
altcognito wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely use this, but if you want to navigate to specific window on an app, prepare to be annoyed. MacOS doesn't really have a window manager, it has an app switcher, and a really inconvenient way to pick the context of your workspace.

cmd + ` switches between windows of an app. Unfortunately, that's the most awkward key combo imaginable on non-US keyboards. Still better than having to mouse down to the (hidden) dock, but only marginally. GNOME does it right, and uses super + . Works the same as the Mac in the US, but is infinitely better in the rest of the world. (you might be able to remap it on macos using an undocumented 'hidutil' command, but…

System Settings> Keyboard> Keyboard Shortcuts> Keyboard> Move focus to next window

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#638

Post by musicale »

musicale wrote: post #634
thefossguy69 wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest papercut preventing me from being productive on macOS is it's horrible window management which cannot be traversed with keyboard shortcuts like one does in WMs like bspwm and others on Linux and that absolutely insane ~500 ms delay in setting the focused window when moving between virtual desktops. For some reason, Apple's ideal desktop experience is tailored around focusing on one application at a time.…

> horrible window management which cannot be traversed with keyboard shortcuts Window focus shortcut: System Preferences > Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts > Keyboard Other window shortcuts: System Preferences > Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts > Windows See "Keyboard focus shortcuts" etc. at: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102650 And: https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/mac-window-tiling-i...

s/Preferences/Settings/

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#639

Post by [deleted] »

antisthenes wrote: post #203

It's insane we've somehow come back to 8GB RAM laptops in 2026. I have an old circa ~2012 era Dell Latitude Laptop with 16GB in it. While it may not be powerful enough to play modern games or anything and may not run Win 11 (although why would you?), it's certainly served me well for at least a full decade.

[deleted]

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#640

Post by pjmlp »

regexorcist wrote: post #413
whimblepop wrote: post #83

I was seduced by Apple Silicon after experiencing the exceptional battery life and performance. Those things are great, as are the screens and the speakers. But I'm still excited about the Framework 12 because I don't love macOS. I don't need an alternative to beat Apple on every line of the spec sheet. I just need them to align with my values, support Linux well, and cross a certain "good enough" threshold. The late…

I'm constantly surprised by just how bad macOS is as a Linux user. I currently have to deal with it sometimes as I run my local LLM server on it and it's painful. That said the hardware is great, I run Asahi on another M1 MBP and Linux makes it the best laptop I've ever used.

The first error is assuming all UNIXes are Linux distros.

Which is what many folks buying Apple laptops do.

An BSD, Aix, Solaris user would face similar problems.

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