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Can we have the day off?

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Re: Can we have the day off?

#631

Post by throwaway63467 »

abletonlive wrote: post #611
throwaway63467 wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s been like that for a while, economic gains went to a small fraction of people, before software developers were among those that were on the winning side, now they’re on the losing side. Think about how much the US economy is growing right now and who really profits from that growth. My guess is that 90 % of the growth goes to 10 % of people, with AI maybe 99 % might go to the 1 %. Or who do you think will gain f…

> before software developers were among those that were on the winning side, now they’re on the losing side. are you sure about that? i'm a software engineer and i feel like i'm on the wining side now, even more than before. I'm considering quitting my 500K a year job to go compete against the employers. they seem like dinosaurs to me.

Well congrats man you might belong to the 1 % then

Re: Can we have the day off?

#632

Post by maleldil »

gabrieledarrigo wrote: post #568
madrox wrote: post #65

The four day work week is a prisoner's dilemma. If everyone did it, then we'd all get a payoff, but if someone defects to a longer work week they tend to get ahead at work. Thus we all do it and thus we all lose. It's funny how underappreciated it is how the five day work week is powered by norms...at least in the US. People assume there are laws about it. The only laws dictate compensation past certain thresholds, a…

> but if someone defects to a longer work week they tend to get ahead at work. Thus we all do it and thus we all lose. A four-day-a-week worker here. I don't know what you exactly mean, but my personal experience is exactly the opposite. I worked for a startup as a founding engineer, just 4d/w (the CTO was crazily open-minded), and I was never so productive. Doesn't matter that the others were working 5 days, pushing…

Out of curiosity, how many hours per day did you work? Was it the same overall time as a 5-day week, just distributed over 4 days, or did you work a whole day less than others?

Re: Can we have the day off?

#633

Post by munksbeer »

dannersy wrote: post #626
cattown wrote: post #33

This article is kind of playful, but I think there’s a serious point here that’s not discussed enough. We’re being asked to usher in huge productivity gains by introducing AI to our workflows, but we’re not asking how does it help us? Not a lot of us stand to directly gain from our employers becoming more productive. I know everybody is afraid of getting fired and replaced with AI or whatever right now. But we should…

It is honestly offensive to me that this isn't plainly obvious to everyone. AI has never, ever, and never will be, about making life better for the average human. It has always been, and always will be, about wealth consolidation and control. Does anyone think it is coincidence that now local models are more useful the market has suddenly made it massively more expensive to buy your own hardware? Companies are just g…

>AI has never, ever, and never will be, about making life better for the average human.

You don't know that. And this same line could be said about any technology that results in accruing of capital, but actually does end up making life better for the average human.

What if AI at AlphaFold finds a cure for Alzheimer's disease? What if it finds a way to actually perfect fusion?

You can't tell me we don't live better lives than people 100 years ago right now, and that is because of technology.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#634

Post by munksbeer »

Ancalagon wrote: post #206
moduspol wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computers and the Internet ushered in huge productivity gains. Despite many people losing their jobs as a result, it's tough to argue society isn't better off. I think that's the key difference with AI, though. It's not like I'm losing my job, but at least I have a robot at home that cleans the house and does my laundry. People are having their livelihoods threatened while their utility bills go up because of datacen…

Is society better off? Honest question, you used to be able to support a family of four with a single 9-5.

Yes. Choose a time and country in history where you would like to be raising a family now as a "median person"? I bet it is within the last 50 years, and specifically in one of the developed nations and probably during the 1970-2000 period. People rarely would choose to go back further.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#635

Post by pmdr »

BirAdam wrote: post #258
apt-apt-apt-apt wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright guys, I'm running for president. 4 day work weeks (8 hours each) for employees or prison.

You could likely get some funding for a PAC based around this. You just have to get Altman, Musk, and the other to realize that it’s a good marketing move. “Our AI is so awesome and boosts productivity so much that no one has to work another 5 day week, ever again.”

Musk is in favor for 12-hour days 7 days a week and no unions.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#636

Post by munksbeer »

kylenessen wrote: post #249
Ancalagon wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is society better off? Honest question, you used to be able to support a family of four with a single 9-5.

My great grandfather supported a family of 7 making brooms. He didn’t own the broom factory. He was an employee, and was paid by the broom. My great grandmother stayed at home to raise 5 children. There was even enough to lend to the local grocery store, apparently. This was at the turn of the 20th century in Canada.

He would have probably worked 12+ hours a day, his children could have died of a toenail infection, their teeth would be falling out early, they could have been deformed by various diseases, many children died young or at birth, etc, etc.

I would never choose to raise a family in that period.

Re: Can we have the day off?

#638

Post by lorepieri »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #600
mil22 wrote: post #333

Effective working hours are not set by absolute productivity - they are set by an equilibrium between two forces: 1. Competitive market dynamics. If you only work four days a week, other employees and companies who are willing to work five days a week will do so and get ahead of you, and you are more likely to get fired or to go out of business. This force pushes us all to work longer (and harder) so we have more mon…

First sensible take I've seen in this thread. People especially seem to forget the consequences of #1: The company where everyone is working 0.5 days a week will almost certainly get outcompeted, very quickly, by the company where everyone is working 5 days a week. In fact company #2 can probably precompute company #1 even if they have much lower quality staff on average.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_a...

Re: Can we have the day off?

#640

Post by npw55036 »

The issue of productivity and demand has existed for a long time, but the explosion in productivity caused by the AI trend has made it even more apparent: in most markets, demand can grow indefinitely, and products always have room for improvement. Increased productivity only intensifies competition, and while actual workers are not truly liberated, their products do benefit consumers.
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