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Online age verification is the hill to die on

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Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#631

Post by bdangubic »

denkmoon wrote: post #600
bdangubic wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By western you mean America? Cause this is true only in America.

Absolutely true in Australia. The parents I know are either rich enough to outsource it or basically fighting for their life managing work and childrearing. And to add salt to the wound, it's the people on the positive side of the economic bell curve that have strong familial support networks where grandparents and uncles and aunts can contribute to childrearing, while those on the other side of the curve can't alway…

what’s the maternity leave situation in Australia?

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#632

Post by bdangubic »

gib444 wrote: post #567
bdangubic wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By western you mean America? Cause this is true only in America.

It's also true in the UK. High housing costs, high living costs and low wages means two parents need to work as much as possible.

what’s the maternity leave situation in UK?

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#633

Post by nandomrumber »

nonethewiser wrote: post #270
rationalist wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's why any kid can go watch any movie in the cinema right? Yes. At least in the U.S., the federal government does not regulate that, it is voluntary by the MPA (formerly MPAA) and theaters. A kid can buy a ticket for a PG movie and walk into an R-rated movie. > Do you think a middle class single mother has the resources to keep their kids entertained and out of social media for the whole day? Mine did. While no…

So why are there laws that dont let them buy cigarettes and alcohol?

I don’t believe there are, at least not here in Australia.

In Australia, I’m fairly certain it is not an offence for a minor to purchase alcohol or tobacco.

It is an offence to supply alcohol or tobacco to a minor.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#634

Post by ericmay »

domador wrote: post #576
ericmay wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the cynical view, yes, but we can see educational standards and performance going down in the United States, we have seen plenty of scientific and medical studies showing problems with children and more specifically teenagers using social media. I'm not one to want to want to limit someone's rights, but it seems like the trade-off here is in favor of requiring age verification at least for social media compani…

Maybe requiring identification to speak online is not the intent but it would likely be the practical effect of the laws that were originally intended just to help children. It's not enough to think about laws' intent, but also their practical effects. We haven't even mentioned the censoriousness that already takes place in various online forums not because a user said something racist or was stirring up trouble, but…

At the end of the day they are private websites and the owners get to decide all of that stuff. Start your own, or just stop posting and let such folks have their echo chambers. One of our problems in society is that folks seem to think there is a need to post on the Internet on some forum - stop giving others power over you. You’re just posting to a bunch of anonymous people. They may be bots for all you know. Who cares?

> Maybe requiring identification to speak online is not the intent but it would likely be the practical effect of the laws that were originally intended just to help children. It's not enough to think about laws' intent, but also their practical effects.

Right we should analyze trade-offs. But you are quite focused on censorship which I am also generally concerned with. But are you really being censored by being identified and associated with what you say online? In public you aren’t anonymous - why must that extend to this digital public square?

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#635

Post by jpfromlondon »

slg wrote: post #525
cooper_ganglia wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The politicians that want to identify everyone capitalize on organic desire for these proposals in the form of fear-mongering and "Think of the children!" Citizens that want these laws are unthinking drones who don't want to raise their children, and instead want legislators to do it for them. Politicians that want these laws are the people who, ideally, want to track your every move online for a multitude of reasons…

>organic desire for these proposals Even if everything you said was true and there was a global conspiracy among the politicians, the tech crowd consistently denies and demeans these organic desires. We could cut the legs out from under these politicians if we listened to these people's concerns, considered actual solutions like OP did at the top of this thread, and turned these people into allies against those polit…

The public, and consumers in general often state a want or need for something that they don't actually want or that would harm their quality of life, it is correct to demean or deride these wants when they're identified, some aspects of human nature are amusing.

But there is a global conspiracy, a synchronised effort among western leaders to implement near identical solutions to this engineered "problem", the responsibility remains squarely on the shoulders of parents, I say this as a parent.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#636

Post by ericmay »

domador wrote: post #585
ericmay wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt they need that to identify you. There are also lots of other problems like algorithmic manipulation. But also just stop using these junky websites. Everyone always complains about Meta doing this, TikTok doing that, and it's like if all they do is make you mad, stop being their user/customers?

It's very hard to stop being their users/customers when they're the only platform where people are gathering for that particular purpose. The nature of walled gardens and network effects often mean that there isn't a viable alternative. It's bad when the choice one has is between 1) using a platform that's significantly problematic or 2) being disconnected from everyone you'd like to connect with because they're only…

It’s pretty easy. I haven’t had social media besides LinkedIn since, I think 2013? I participate in all sorts of events, I know about things going on in my neighborhood and city, and I have quite a few friends. You don’t need this stuff and it’s just going to suck up more and more of your time and attention misleading you in to believing you need it.

You’re not connected with anyone. It’s a surrogate activity.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#637

Post by gib444 »

bdangubic wrote: post #632
gib444 wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also true in the UK. High housing costs, high living costs and low wages means two parents need to work as much as possible.

what’s the maternity leave situation in UK?

Statutory Maternity Pay can be paid for up to 39 weeks.

The first 6 weeks: 90% of average weekly earnings

The remaining 33 weeks: £187.18 or 90% of average weekly earnings (whichever is lower)

So not much after the first 6 weeks

Some data for non-statuary maternity pay https://www.incomesdataresearch.co.uk/resources/insights/mat...

Later

From the people I know, the financial pressure seems to build around 6 months as their employer's maternity pay is fading into the distance, but they struggle on a bit longer.

I admit there may be different definitions of "as soon as possible" between the USA and other countries. Most people here would love to be able to afford at least 1 year if not more.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#638

Post by raxxorraxor »

ronsor wrote: post #121

There's an angle everyone misses. Mandatory age surveillance everywhere is only going to result in massive, normalized ID fraud. You thought fake and stolen IDs were a problem before? You haven't seen anything yet. And half of it will be from adults trying to avoid privacy invasion.

It would be a good market, I would like to pay for an ID in my or compatible countries. As far as the systems work that I have seen, this is more or less a permanent pass.

But the real problem is that governments again try to censor online content, nothing else.

My country doesn't even run children's homes without many incidents and nobody cares for that. But it tries to track citizens through things like corona apps. It cannot propose any trusted entity that could verify and ID information about me.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#639

Post by sillyfluke »

brandonmenc wrote: post #404

After reading these comments, I don't want to hear any of you suggest that kids shouldn't be allowed to have unrestricted access to smartphones or social media ever again. How did you think this was going to be enforced?

I don't understand. I would assume most people don't think small kids should smoke crack. That doesn't mean that they are automatically in favor of creating a 24/7 survelliance state just to prevent that from happening.

Re: Online age verification is the hill to die on

#640

Post by bdangubic »

gib444 wrote: post #637
bdangubic wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what’s the maternity leave situation in UK?

Statutory Maternity Pay can be paid for up to 39 weeks. The first 6 weeks: 90% of average weekly earnings The remaining 33 weeks: £187.18 or 90% of average weekly earnings (whichever is lower) So not much after the first 6 weeks Some data for non-statuary maternity pay https://www.incomesdataresearch.co.uk/resources/insights/mat... Later From the people I know, the financial pressure seems to build around 6 months as…

so we can’t really compare US (zero), with this, yes? not saying going to work after XX weeks is great either :(
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