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All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

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Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#631

Post by kube-system »

manquer wrote: post #534
twilo wrote: post #4

If a battery can do 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity it is exempt from this, which is exactly what Apple implemented a few years ago. Low cost phones will be most affected.

This is not correct. There is no exemption for Apple devices You seem to referencing from a older exemption for self serviceability if your smartphone can do 1,000 cycles and retain 80% battery. Specifically - B 1.1 (1) (c) (ii) (b) . Here is the link - https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... Article 11 of the new regulation ( https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... ) c…

> covers exemptions but nothing to do with 1,000 cycles or Apple as far as i can see.

It appears what you're looking for is in B(5)(c)(ii).

> (c) From 20 June 2025, manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives shall ensure that the process for battery replacement:

> (i) meets the following criteria:

> — fasteners shall be resupplied or reusable;

> — the process for replacement shall be feasible with no tool, a tool or set of tools that is supplied with the product or spare part, or basic tools;

> — the process for replacement shall be able to be carried out in a use environment;

> — the process for replacement shall be able to be carried out by a layman.

> (ii) or, as an alternative to point (i), ensure that

> — the process for battery replacement meets the criteria set out in (a);

> — after 500 full charge cycles the battery must have in a fully charged state, a remaining capacity of at least 83 % of the rated capacity;

> — the battery endurance in cycles achieves a minimum of 1 000 full charge cycles, and after 1 000 full charge cycles the battery must, in addition, have in a fully charged state, a remaining capacity of at least 80 % of the rated capacity;

> — the device is at least dust tight and protected against immersion in water up to one meter depth for a minimum of 30 minutes.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#632

Post by kstrauser »

manquer wrote: post #534
twilo wrote: post #4

If a battery can do 1000 cycles and remain above 80% capacity it is exempt from this, which is exactly what Apple implemented a few years ago. Low cost phones will be most affected.

This is not correct. There is no exemption for Apple devices You seem to referencing from a older exemption for self serviceability if your smartphone can do 1,000 cycles and retain 80% battery. Specifically - B 1.1 (1) (c) (ii) (b) . Here is the link - https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... Article 11 of the new regulation ( https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... ) c…

Your link says otherwise. From the Article 11 link, ANNEX II, A.1.1.(5):

(a) From 20 June 2025, manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives shall ensure that the process for replacement of the display assembly and of parts referred to in point 1(a), with the exception of the battery or batteries, meets the following criteria: [...]

[...]

(c) From 20 June 2025, manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives shall ensure that the process for battery replacement:

(i) meets the following criteria:

— fasteners shall be resupplied or reusable;

- the process for replacement shall be feasible with no tool, a tool or set of tools that is supplied with the product or spare part, or basic tools;

— the process for replacement shall be able to be carried out in a use environment;

— the process for replacement shall be able to be carried out by a layman.

(ii) or, as an alternative to point (i), ensure that:

— the process for battery replacement meets the criteria set out in (a);

— after 500 full charge cycles the battery must, in addition, have in a fully charged state, a remaining capacity of at least 83 % of the rated capacity;

— the battery endurance in cycles achieves a minimum of 1 000 full charge cycles, and after 1 000 full charge cycles the battery must, in addition, have in a fully charged state, a remaining capacity of at least 80 % of the rated capacity;

— the device is at least dust tight and protected against immersion in water up to one meter depth for a minimum of 30 minutes.

---

So manufacturers must make the battery replaceable, or meet all the conditions from (a) for replacing non-battery components, and meet the 1000 cycle / 80% capacity requirement.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#633

Post by oliyoung »

codedokode wrote: post #613

It's a good move, but that is not enough. My old Chinese phone had a replaceable battery but it lasted so long that after it died, it was not possible to find the replacement. It seems that all phones have batteries with different sizes, and potentially different third pin designation, so even if you find smaller battery, it still can be incompatible because of third pin. So if you want phones to be usable for longer…

From the article

> Replacement batteries for any model will have to remain available to users for at least five years after the last unit of the product is placed on the market, the regulation also states.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#634

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

Alupis wrote: post #81
mentalgear wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't fall for the 'glue cuz of protection' myth - there are and had been water-resistant phones way before Apple started glueing to avoid customers doing their own repairs and them losing out on new sales.

Which phones? I ask as someone that's had to replace multiple phones after a trip through the washing machine. Modern phone water resistance is incredible. I've even seen people literally swim with their phones and not even question if it was a bad idea.

> I've even seen people literally swim with their phones and not even question if it was a bad idea.

Which is funny to me, because even with an IP68 phone, I get worried if I even splash a little water on it.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#635

Post by piskov »

kolinko wrote: post #625
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

With cameras you don't care about every mm of width, nor about how resistant it is to falls. With phones you do. I, for one, don't welcome that change. I'd be ok with paying someone a bit extra to replace the battery. I mean, I'd be ok if I had a battery die in my phone in the last 10 years, which I don't remember it did.

The main issue of paying someone to teplace the battery is procuring the battery in the first place.

For example, good luck finding good apple batteries in regions where there is no official apple service.

Most Chinese parts are inferior: for example rates for max 500 cycles instead of 1000

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#636

Post by snvzz »

Zak wrote: post #560
emtel wrote: post #258

One of the most frustrating things about HN is that people seem so unaware of how idiosyncratic their preferences are. If you stood on the street corner and asked every passerby what they would change about their phone, I think you would be there all day before someone said "I wish I could replace the battery". It's okay to have idiosyncratic preferences (I certainly do), but people should recognize that this law wil…

I moderate /r/flashlight. Something I've seen a substantial increase in over the past few years is people who are surprised to learn that it's possible to have a built-in charger in combination with a field-replaceable battery. It doesn't take much explaining; it just hadn't occurred to them because the devices they're used to don't work that way. People don't change batteries in their phones now because they'd need…

re: flashlights.

Still no real upgrade for hexbright, which is a shame.

I wish they were still being made. Fortunately, mine are still fine, and I expect to be able to repair them should they break. (xtal is a common failure point apparently)

Standard battery type is nice, but also has microusb charging port, the part that didn't age well.

Perhaps new circuit boards (with usb-pd charging, usb-c connector and mems oscillator) will be the way forward. It's definitely easier to order a pcb than the housing.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#637

Post by rythie »

kolinko wrote: post #625
rythie wrote: post #584

It’s been long enough that people of forgotten what’s it’s like. Cameras still have replaceable batteries, there are several benefits: I can have two (or more) batteries, if it runs out I just change it. I don’t need walk around with a USB battery pack and cable hanging off the device preventing me from using it properly. I can put the battery on charge somewhere and leave it, even if not completely secure, because j…

With cameras you don't care about every mm of width, nor about how resistant it is to falls. With phones you do. I, for one, don't welcome that change. I'd be ok with paying someone a bit extra to replace the battery. I mean, I'd be ok if I had a battery die in my phone in the last 10 years, which I don't remember it did.

Both of those things are also important in cameras, there is even sites that compare the size such as https://camerasize.com/. Cameras have got smaller in recent years and it makes the size makes a big difference to whether you take it with you on not or fits in your pocket or not for compact cameras. Ricoh’s gr4 camera is 0.5mm thinner than the previous model (gr3). Cameras are essentially smaller than they would be otherwise because they have replaceable batteries. People who need at more power usually use several batteries rather than use a bigger camera with more capacity.

Cameras also need to withstand drops for similar reasons to phones, it’s in you hand and you could drop it, also tripods can fall over, car mounts fall off etc.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#638

Post by kstrauser »

kube-system wrote: post #631
manquer wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not correct. There is no exemption for Apple devices You seem to referencing from a older exemption for self serviceability if your smartphone can do 1,000 cycles and retain 80% battery. Specifically - B 1.1 (1) (c) (ii) (b) . Here is the link - https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... Article 11 of the new regulation ( https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... ) c…

> covers exemptions but nothing to do with 1,000 cycles or Apple as far as i can see. It appears what you're looking for is in B(5)(c)(ii). > (c) From 20 June 2025, manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives shall ensure that the process for battery replacement: > (i) meets the following criteria: > — fasteners shall be resupplied or reusable; > — the process for replacement shall be feasible with no tool…

Jinx! Owe me a coke.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#639

Post by numpad0 »

mentalgear wrote: post #67
tim333 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was wondering about that. I lost my iPhone 13 mini the other day, did the find my phone beep thing and got a distant beep from my washing machine which was on wash cycle. Surprisingly the phone was fine and works fine after a brief rinse under the tap. It must be hard to combine that sort of water resistance with easy user changing.

Don't fall for the 'glue cuz of protection' myth - there are and had been water-resistant phones way before Apple started glueing to avoid customers doing their own repairs and them losing out on new sales.

I've seen rumors that Apple started waterproofing phones after Chinese criminal groups started farming parts on AppleCare by dumping the mainboard into buckets of Shenzhen seawater to deny electronic serial number readout. Your logic board can't be so dead from normal use that not even its PMIC respond to commands if it's waterproof.

I've also had iPhone dying from gasket leaks, the circumferential double sided tape seal dries out after a while.

Re: All phones sold in the EU to have replaceable batteries from 2027

#640

Post by kstrauser »

calf wrote: post #611
parl_match wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not correct. There is no exemption for Apple devices It was not said that Apple was exempted. What was said is that Apple complied with the exemption rules.

It was not said explicitly but it was a straightforward implication. The replier then pointed out the exemption rule is outdated therefore the implied consequence is wrong and the original line of reasoning was misinformation, and thus would be the greater error. Humans

The replier was wrong, though. They misread it and skipped over the part they thought wasn’t there.
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