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The Waymo World Model

waymo.com

631–640 of 699 posts

Re: The Waymo World Model

#631

What's going to happen to all the millions of drivers who will lose their job overnight? In a country with 100 million guns, are we really sure we've thought this through?

what did all the farmers do when the first tractors rolled into the fields?

They invented offices because the massive increase in productivity required more organisation than "I'll take it all to the market on Saturday"

Re: The Waymo World Model

#632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His stated reason was that he wanted the team focused on the driving problem, not sensor fusion "now you have two problems" problems. People assumed cost was the real reason, but it seems unfair to blame him for what people assumed. Don't get me wrong, I don't like him either, but that's not due to his autonomous driving leadership decisions, it's because of shitting up twitter, shitting up US elections with handouts…

Sensor fusion is an issue, one that is solvable over time and investment in the driving model, but sensor-can't-see-anything is a show stopper. Having a self-driving solution that can be totally turned off with a speck of mud, heavy rain, morning dew, bright sunlight at dawn and dusk.. you can't engineer your way out of sensor-blindness. I don't want a solution that is available to use 98% of the time, I want a solut…

If you have mud on a camera, you can't drive it either way. Lidar or not. The way to actually solve these issues is to have way more cameras for redundancy / self cleaning etc, not other sensors.

Re: The Waymo World Model

#633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Waymo had no choice but to solve the expensive problem of "Always Available and Safe" And it's still not clear whether they are using a fallback driving stack for a situation where one of non-essential (i.e. non-camera (1)) sensors is degraded. I haven't seen Waymo clearly stating capabilities of their self-driving stack in this regard. On the other hand, there are such things as washer fluid and high dynamic range…

Hence why both together make the solution waymo chose. The proof is in the pudding, Waymo's have been driving millions of miles without any intervention. Tesla requires safety drivers. I would never trust the FSD on my model 3 to be even nearly perfect all the time. Lidar also gives you the ability to see through fog and as it scans, see the depth needed to nearly always understand what object is in front of them. My…

Waymo had safety drivers for a long time. And still have safety drivers to this day when they roll out a new city. You wouldn't have known that because no one was paying attention to this stuff back then.

Re: The Waymo World Model

#634

Suddenly all this focus on world models by Deep mind starts to make sense. I've never really thought of Waymo as a robot in the same way as e.g. a Boston Dynamics humanoid, but of course it is a robot of sorts. Google/Alphabet are so vertically integrated for AI when you think about it. Compare what they're doing - their own power generation , their own silicon, their own data centers, search Gmail YouTube Gemini wor…

Also known as a monopoly. This should terrify us all.

Monopolies are essentially 100% horizontal integration. Vertical integration is a completely different concept.

Re: The Waymo World Model

#635
post #403
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lidar fails worse than cameras in nearly all those conditions. There are plenty of videos of Tesla's vision-only approach seeing obstacles far before a human possibly could in all those conditions on real customer cars. Many are on the old hardware with far worse cameras

Interesting, got any links? Sounds completely unbelievable, eyes are far superior to the shitty cameras Tesla has on their cars.

There's a misconception that what people see and what the camera sees is similar. Not true at all. One day when it's raining or foggy, have some record the driving, through the windshield. You'll be very surprised. Even what the camera displays on the screen isn't what it's actually "seeing".

Re: The Waymo World Model

#636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that the official Tesla stat? I've heard of way more Tesla fatalities than that..

I don't know what he's on about. Here's a better list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_Autopilot_crashe...

Good ole Autopilot vs FSD post. You would think people on Hacker News would be better informed. Autopilot is just lane keep and adaptive cruise control. Basically what every other car has at this point.

"MacOS Tahoe has these cool features". "Yea but what about this wikipedia article on System 1. Look it has these issues."

That's how you come across

Re: The Waymo World Model

#637
post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autonomous cars need to be significantly better than humans to be fully accepted especially when an accident does happen. Hence limiting yourself to only cameras is futile.

Surely as soon as they're safer than humans they should be deployed as fast as possible to save some of the 3000 people who are killed by human drivers every day

Of course they should be, but that's not what will happen. Humans are not rational, so self-driving cars must be significantly safer than human drivers to avoid as much political pushback as possible.

Re: The Waymo World Model

#638
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah its absurd. As a Tesla driver, I have to say the autopilot model really does feel like what someone who's never driven a car before thinks it's like. Using vision only is so ignorant of what driving is all about: sound, vibration, vision, heat, cold...these are all clues on road condition. If the car isn't feeling all these things as part of the model, you're handicapping it. In a brilliant way Lidar is the miss…

I quickly googled Lidar limitations, and this article came up: https://www.yellowscan.com/knowledge/how-weather-really-affe... Seeing how its by a lidar vendor, I don't think they're biased against it. It seems Lidar is not a panacea - it struggles with heavy rain, snow, much more than cameras do and is affected by cold weather or any contamination on the sensor. So lidar will only get you so far. I'm far more intere…

Lidar is a moot point. You can't drive with just Lidar, no matter what. That's what people don't understand. The most common one I hear: "What if the camera gets mud on it", ok then you have to get out and clean it, or it needs an auto cleaning system.

Re: The Waymo World Model

#639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have HW3, but FSD reliably disengages at this time of year with sunrise and sunset during commute hours.

Yep, and won't activate until any morning dew is off the sensors.. or when it rains too hard.. or if it's blinded by a shiny building/window/vehicle. I will never trust 2d camera-only, it can be covered or blocked physically and when it happens FSD fails. As cheap as LIDAR has gotten, adding it to every new tesla seems to be the best way out of this idiotic position. Sadly I think Elon got bored with cars and moved o…

If the camera is covered or blocked, you can't drive plain and simple, as you can't drive a car (at least on Earth) with just Lidar. The roads are made for eyes. Maybe on Rocky's homeworld you can have a Lidar only system for traveling.

Re: The Waymo World Model

#640
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always understood this to be why Tesla started working on humanoid robots

I don't want a humanoid robot. I want a purpose built robot.

It's called a dishwasher, washing machine, and dryer. Plus like robomowers, vaccums etc.
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