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X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

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Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#631

Post by numpad0 »

pdpi wrote: post #467
_trampeltier wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very different. It is YOUR 3d printer, no one else is involved. You might print a knife and kill somebody with it, you go to jail, not third party involved. If you use a service like Grok, then you use somebody elses computer / things. X is the owner from computer that produced CP. So of course X is at least also a bit liable for producing CP.

How does that mesh with all the safe harbour provisions we've depended on to make the modern internet, though?

It's not like the world benefited from safe harbor laws that much. Why don't just amend them so that algorithms that run on server side and platforms that recommend things are not eligible.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#632

Post by pjc50 »

sunshine-o wrote: post #622
mnewme wrote: post #519

Good one. No platform ever should allow CSAM content. And the fact that they didn’t even care and haven’t want to spend money for implementing guardrails or moderation is deeply concerning. This has imho nothing to do with model censorship, but everything with allowing that kind of content on a platform

[flagged]

Enforcement of anti-CSAM law has been a significant thing for a long time. It's in no way "only now". Even the "free speech" platforms banned it because they knew they would get raided otherwise. There are long standing tools for dealing with it, such as a database of known hashes of material. There's even a little box you can tick in Cloudflare to automatically check outgoing material from your own site against that database - because this is a strict liability offence, and you are liable if other people upload it to you where it can be re-downloaded.

What's new is that X automated the production of obscene or sexualised images by providing grok. This was also done in a way that confronted everyone; it's very different from a black market, this is basically a harassment tool for use against women and girls.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#633

Post by tick_tock_tick »

utopiah wrote: post #457

To people claiming a physical raid is pointless from the point of gathering data : - you are thinking about a company doing good things the right way. You are thinking about a company abiding by the law, storing data on its own server, having good practices, etc. The moment a company starts to do dubious stuff then good practices start to go out the window. People write email with cryptic analogies, people start dele…

No need to be coy the raid exists because it's a way to punish the company without proving anything. They have zero intention of getting even the slightest bit of valuable data related to Grok from this.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#634

Post by direwolf20 »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #633
utopiah wrote: post #457

To people claiming a physical raid is pointless from the point of gathering data : - you are thinking about a company doing good things the right way. You are thinking about a company abiding by the law, storing data on its own server, having good practices, etc. The moment a company starts to do dubious stuff then good practices start to go out the window. People write email with cryptic analogies, people start dele…

No need to be coy the raid exists because it's a way to punish the company without proving anything. They have zero intention of getting even the slightest bit of valuable data related to Grok from this.

What's your evidence?

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#636

Post by pjc50 »

exodust wrote: post #531
mnewme wrote: post #519

Good one. No platform ever should allow CSAM content. And the fact that they didn’t even care and haven’t want to spend money for implementing guardrails or moderation is deeply concerning. This has imho nothing to do with model censorship, but everything with allowing that kind of content on a platform

[flagged]

> How about "R-Rated" violence like we see in popular movies?

Movie ratings are a good example of a system for restricting who sees unacceptable content, yes.

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#637

Post by terminalshort »

jazzyjackson wrote: post #506
pdpi wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that mesh with all the safe harbour provisions we've depended on to make the modern internet, though?

This might be an unpopular opinion but I always thought we might be better off without Web 2.0 where site owners aren’t held responsible for user content If you’re hosting content, why shouldn’t you be responsible, because your business model is impossible if you’re held to account for what’s happening on your premises? Without safe harbor, people might have to jump through the hoops of buying their own domain name,…

You know this site would not be possible without those protections, right?

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#638

Post by direwolf20 »

darkport wrote: post #624
mnewme wrote: post #519

Good one. No platform ever should allow CSAM content. And the fact that they didn’t even care and haven’t want to spend money for implementing guardrails or moderation is deeply concerning. This has imho nothing to do with model censorship, but everything with allowing that kind of content on a platform

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#639

Post by mortarion »

mortarion wrote: post #630
chrisjj wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CSAM does not have a universal definition. Strange that there was no disagreement before "AI", right? Yet now we have a clutch of new "definitions" all of which dilute and weaken the meaning. > In Sweden for instance, CSAM is any image of an underage subject (real or realistic digital) designed to evoke a sexual response. No corroboration found on web. Quite the contrary, in fact: "Sweden does not have a legislativ…

This is the actual law (Brottsbalken 16:10a) https://www.riksdagen.se/sv/dokument-och-lagar/dokument/sven... A person who 1. depicts a child in a pornographic image, 2. disseminates, transfers, provides, exhibits, or otherwise makes such an image of a child available to another person, 3. acquires or offers such an image of a child, 4. facilitates contacts between buyers and sellers of such images of children or take…

Not only that. This law exists like this because of a EU directive.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2011/93/oj/eng

Let me quote again: Pay attention to c.iv specifically:

(c) ‘child pornography’ means:

(i) any material that visually depicts a child engaged in real or simulated sexually explicit conduct;

(ii) any depiction of the sexual organs of a child for primarily sexual purposes;

(iii) any material that visually depicts any person appearing to be a child engaged in real or simulated sexually explicit conduct or any depiction of the sexual organs of any person appearing to be a child, for primarily sexual purposes; or

(iv) realistic images of a child engaged in sexually explicit conduct or realistic images of the sexual organs of a child, for primarily sexual purposes;

Re: X offices raided in France as UK opens fresh investigation into Grok

#640

Post by pseudony »

joe_mamba wrote: post #574
ImPleadThe5th wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not hypothetical. And in fact the girl who was being targeted was expelled not the boys who did it [1]. Those boys absolutely should be held accountable. But I also don't think that Grok should be able to quickly and easily generate fake revenge porn for minors. [1] https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/girl-...

>And in fact the girl who was being targeted was expelled not the boys who did it [1]. And the AI is at fault for this sentencing, not the school authorities/prosecutors/judges dishing justice? WTF. How is this an AI problem and not a legal system problem?

You can’t “undo” a school shooting, for instance, so we tend to have gun laws.

You can’t just “undo” some girl being harassed by AI generated nude photos of her, so we…

Yes, we should have some protections or restrictions on what you can do.

You may not understand it, either because you aren’t a parent or maybe just not emotionally equipped to understand how serious this actually can be, but your lack of comprehension does not render it a non-issue.

Having schools play whack-a-mole after the photos are shared around is not a valid strategy. Never mind that schools primarily engage in teaching, not in investigation.

As AI-generated content gets less and less distinguishable from reality, these incidents will have far worse consequences and putting such power in the hands of adolescents who demonstrably don’t have sound judgment (hence why they lack many other rights that adults have) is not something most parents are comfortable with - and I doubt you’ll find many teachers, psychiatrists and so on who would support your approach either.

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