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Steam Frame

store.steampowered.com

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Re: Steam Frame

#631

Post by rtkwe »

rtkwe wrote: post #389
andoando wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean I just don't see the difference between this and getting any PC and slapping SteamOS on it.

There's not currently a way to officially put SteamOS on Steam* hardware. Plenty of people have done it but there's the usual compatibility issues where the image is built for the very specific hardware Valve installs it on so there's often wake from sleep and fan control issues. All solvable but it's not the level of turn key of even a mainline linux distro.

Too late to edit and I think it's clear from context but I meant non-Steam* hardware.

Re: Steam Frame

#632

Post by m4rtink »

7bit wrote: post #583
dyauspitr wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 2.5x fewer pixels vs the Vision Pro it doesn’t make sense. That’s 12 million pixels per eye vs 4.5 million pixels. Feels like a much more inferior product. The games aren’t going to look great.

Financially, it makes sense. I don't need the absolute best of everything. The Steam Frame already has a very solid and comparable display. The Vision Pro is the one that's absolutely insane - and the only one on the market with those specs

Yeah, Frame already seems to do all the right tradeoffs for an early 2026 VR headset - has resolution similar to the Quest 3 AND has eye tracking, enabling very nice and useful eye tracking based optimizations for both rendering and streaming.

In comparison Meta might have cut down too much in Quest 3 by omitting eye tracking.

Re: Steam Frame

#633

Post by VikingCoder »

YouTube just happened to show me Gamers Nexus Lossless Scaling & Lossless Frame Generation video just now. [1]

Which, I can't help but wonder. If this ran on the Frame... To aid in streaming from your desktop... In conjunction with Foveated Streaming...

What's even more bonkers to me is the idea that this could really be baked in to the streaming, if you think about it.

Server generates 100 beautiful frames in one second.

The streaming hardware reminds the server that with the current network conditions, that it can only handle X bits per second.

The Frame says, "Hey, here's where the eyes were looking, here's where they are looking, here's where they're projected to look."

The Server knows how many actual frames it can send in a second.

But the Server can run the same Lossless Scaling & Lossless Frame Generation that the client will run.

The Server can then compare the predicted frames against the actual frames, and it can send the delta needed to correct the predictions. Especially in areas close to where the eyes are looking.

The Client consumes the stream, predicts frames, applies the delta, and ends up with better framerate and quality...

Can you do this all low latency, too? I suspect so.

Add it all up, and this is pretty bonkers. I mean, it's kind of obvious that that's how streaming "should work," but I think I hadn't really put it all together yet in my mind. My mental model was too "off the shelf." It didn't include how much effort the client could do... And that the server could then also do, to help the client... It's really a beautiful pairing, when you think about it.

What's really bonkers is that Steam could learn what final images are supposed to look like, for a given game, and train AI specifically for that game. Update the server and the client, and bam, everyone gets better quality. With zero developer interaction.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w_Hqngky0s

Re: Steam Frame

#634

Post by WithinReason »

VikingCoder wrote: post #633

YouTube just happened to show me Gamers Nexus Lossless Scaling & Lossless Frame Generation video just now. [1] Which, I can't help but wonder. If this ran on the Frame... To aid in streaming from your desktop... In conjunction with Foveated Streaming... What's even more bonkers to me is the idea that this could really be baked in to the streaming, if you think about it. Server generates 100 beautiful frames in one se…

This would solve the problem of bandwidth which is not a problem (250MB/s is enough, Valve says)

Re: Steam Frame

#635

Post by surajrmal »

scheeseman486 wrote: post #164
torginus wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't magically fix the Qualcomm GPU or the drivers.

The GPU is fine and the drivers Valve are using, if their past hardware is any indication, will be open source. Doesn't magically fix them, but it does allow for Valve to fix them.

If valve can convince Qualcomm to open source their GPU drivers I will eat a banana peel. They would need to write a new one from scratch (or reuse freedreno, but those are going to have performance issues).

Re: Steam Frame

#636

Post by rtkwe »

scld wrote: post #125
Night_Thastus wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if we could hook this into game rendering as well. Have super high resolution models, textures, shadows, etc near where the player is looking, and use lower LoDs elsewhere. It could really push the boundaries of detail and efficiency, if we could somehow do it real-time for something that complex. (Streaming video sounds a lot easier)

Game rendering is what they're talking about here. John Carmack has talked about this a bunch if you'd like to seed a google search.

Valve is applying it to the streamed view from the computer to reduce the bandwidth requirements it's not actually doing foveated rendering in the game itself because not all games support it.

Foveated streaming is just a bandwidth hack and doesn't reduce the graphic requirements on the host computer the same way foveated rendering does.

Re: Steam Frame

#637

Post by riskable »

beAbU wrote: post #534
riskable wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beat Saber is the ultimate VR game, IMHO. It's what enabled me to create this masterpiece: https://replay.beatleader.com/?scoreId=20010657 :D

Well done, that must've been really fun to watch from an outsider perspective, unlike almost all other vr games in a social setting!

People forget that Beat Saber replays are performances! Do some dancing, all you ACC robots! :D

Re: Steam Frame

#638

Post by VikingCoder »

Next question in my head...

Can we use one Steam Machine to drive, say, 4 to 16 Steam Frames.

Multiplayer gameplay, like Goldeneye. With the convenience that all of the state is in memory in one process, so there's no networking layer in the gameplay logic itself.

And you can't peak at the other players' screens.

Re: Steam Frame

#639

Post by Scene_Cast2 »

VikingCoder wrote: post #638

Next question in my head... Can we use one Steam Machine to drive, say, 4 to 16 Steam Frames. Multiplayer gameplay, like Goldeneye. With the convenience that all of the state is in memory in one process, so there's no networking layer in the gameplay logic itself. And you can't peak at the other players' screens.

GPU horsepower isn't there for that.

Re: Steam Frame

#640

Post by VikingCoder »

WithinReason wrote: post #634
VikingCoder wrote: post #633

YouTube just happened to show me Gamers Nexus Lossless Scaling & Lossless Frame Generation video just now. [1] Which, I can't help but wonder. If this ran on the Frame... To aid in streaming from your desktop... In conjunction with Foveated Streaming... What's even more bonkers to me is the idea that this could really be baked in to the streaming, if you think about it. Server generates 100 beautiful frames in one se…

This would solve the problem of bandwidth which is not a problem (250MB/s is enough, Valve says)

This immediately made me wonder about a Steam Machine driving multiple Steam Frames for multiplayer games.

That could be super easy for a developer to make, all in one process, with no networking requirement for the game logic...

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