Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone" • Hacker News Board

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#631

Post by Saline9515 » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 5:19 PM UTC

dongkyun wrote: post #607

Saline9515 wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a reason among others, but this bike-centric policy (pedestrians nor public transport are the priority) led to an exodus of families [0]. I am among them, as I realized pretty quickly that it's a real pain to move around, buy groceries, go to the doctor, and so on with very young children in Paris, especially if you don't own a car. And now you have to deal with the uncivil behavior of the cyclists, moreover. It…

You do realize that (i) "zones" are just restaurants / cafes / museums that have minimum age requirements and not some demarcated city blocks where children are banned and young adults party all day and (ii) this occurs semi-frequently in the west as well.

Why should a cafe be a "no kid zone"? How do you think you'd feel as a parent ? Or if there were "No Koreans zone"?

"The West" is a rather large part of the world.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#632

Post by mothballed » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 5:20 PM UTC

mrguyorama wrote: post #624

mothballed wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect many view intentional harm as being far more traumatic than accidental harm. This is less the case if the person actually dies, although it may still be the case for their families.

Someone crashing into you because they can't be assed to pay attention to the road, or get drunk and drive because they don't have public transport IS "intentional" harm. Traffic deaths are rarely "accidents".

I suppose even if you sub in "goal to cause death/injury" vs "recklessness that could reasonably be expected to produce injury despite not being the goal" and it would still hold true.

Personally I think it's contentious whether drunk driving etc injuries can be considered "intentional" even if they are expected and reckless. When I think of intentional injuries, I'm thinking of ones where the perpetrator has that as their preferred outcome, something I don't think applies to most drunk driving injuries.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#633

Post by alistairSH » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 5:21 PM UTC

SilverElfin wrote: post #630

oldjim798 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is driving not emotionally taxing the exact same way? Driving with my kids is fucking terrifying. I have 2 under 6, and I have to lock them into these giant car seats to keep them safe (to be clear I like modern car seats, their designs just remind me how vulnerable kids are). Every time I go through a intersection I worry what happens if someone runs the red and smashes into our side. I no longer speed when I dr…

> Every time I go through an intersection I worry what happens if someone runs the red and smashes into our side. Something like this is a lot more rare than harassment on public transit. And not exactly avoidable. So it isn’t worth thinking about. But on public transit you have to maintain constant vigilance just to avoid the many bad situations that could come your way. You’re very exposed and vulnerable. The crime…

Two thoughts...

Is it actually true that car accidents are far more rare than harassment on the subway? I don't take public transit enough to comment (there is none here).

Car accidents have a much higher likelihood of maiming or killing me. Even if they're more rare, I would posit (but don't have numbers) that the total cost to society (including property damage) is MUCH higher.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#634

Post by tjansen » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 5:23 PM UTC

darkamaul wrote: post #232

While the current Paris administration has its detractors, its policies, removing surface parking, expanding bike lanes, and lowering speed limits, have done tremendous good for air quality (see the Airparif study for details in [0]). Paris may not yet be at Amsterdam’s scale, but only 5 % of daily trips in the city are made by car. It’s staggering that roughly 50 % of public space is allocated to cars [1], despite t…

I was in Paris this year, for the first time in 10 years, and frankly, I didn't notice less traffic. All streets are full. There are certainly more electric cars, and fewer old ones. However, the streets are now crowded with Uber and taxi cabs. I didn't notice fewer cars.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#635

Post by MisterTea » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 5:23 PM UTC

powvans wrote: post #10

This is really amazing to see trending on HN. I spent a couple days in Pontevedra this summer while walking the Camino de Santiago. It was absolutely delightful and what I experienced aligns with the article. The old town was filled with wide streets almost exclusively for walking, cafes and restaurants that sprawled into plazas, and people young and old enjoying the car free public space. It was one of the first sto…

I was in Spain last month and what stood out is that walkability requires mom and pop stores as well as more integrated neighborhoods with small commercial shops mixed into residential. Small shops seemed to be the majority in the city centers. The only large store I saw was a Lidl. They have largeish indoor markets that are more like a mini mall of individual shops like a butcher, produce, baker, cheese, even restaurants and bars. And these are located in a neighborhood center serving the surrounding community.

The thing that kills walkability in the USA are the hyper scale stores and malls where everyone wants a mega store that has everything - one stop shops. They are too big to fit in small neighborhoods so they have to be built in a commercial district or large strip mall. And since they are big and house many shoppers at once they need big parking lots. Then they need big streets to feed those big parking lots. These big ass stores DEMAND cars and are very much a part of the problem.

If you want more walkability then incentivize lots of small shops over single giant shops. I would also argue that neighborhoods that are all residential for blocks and blocks are another problem so zoning should force a minimal commercial allotment to ensure walkable neighborhoods.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#636

Post by ionwake » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 5:24 PM UTC

deltarholamda wrote: post #622

ionwake wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Everybody loves public transit until they get panhandled for the jillionth time As a european I read this comment, its sort of implications, and reckon US must be hell in some areas. TBH London has seen a big drop in health, pan handlers have "lightly" started appearing on public transport, I think I only began noticing it since 2020. My point is even with the occasionaly pan handler in London, that statement wouldn…

Well, panhandling was just one thing mentioned, and to focus on that to the exclusion of the others seems disingenuous. But it does depend on the nature of the panhandling, doesn't it? Passive panhandling is one thing, and aggressive panhandling is something else, right? The point is that people will accept some level of anti-social behavior, however they define that, and above that level they do not. No amount of bl…

Im confused, you seem to be offended for some reason

EDIT> I reread your comment what on earth are you talking about? Im not acting shocked, and nothing about my reply is anything to do with other people having differing opinions.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#637

Post by c22 » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 5:24 PM UTC

Der_Einzige wrote: post #578

Fricken wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daily bicycle commute takes me right through the heart of my city's homeless district, and like with many cities things have gotten a lot worse since COVID. Cars are far and away the biggest threat to my safety, and the source of all the harrassment I receive while out in public. I mean, every now and then some guttersnipe blurts out incoherencies at me, but that's not something to be afraid of. I regard driving,…

[flagged]

Last time I tried riding on a sidewalk (which is legal where I live, but notably not everywhere) some random pedestrian who felt affronted pushed me off my bike, so ymmv.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#638

Post by deltarholamda » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 5:24 PM UTC

rcpt wrote: post #601

deltarholamda wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd think "it can be both" would be obvious, but clearly not. Rich people have been enjoying a different standard of life even in the midst of abject poverty since forever, but I guess this is news to some.

So, OP is right. Despite the Nextdoor-tier rant about panhandlers the demand for walkable cities is huge. So huge that the super rich will pay handsomely and put up with panhandlers on top of it to live outside of car hell.

That's an amazingly reductive take on a complex issue, and it infers something which was not implied.

At no point did I suggest that walkable cities were not in demand, only that the current state is less than ideal for a large number of people, to which your solution was "be rich".

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#639

Post by Earw0rm » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 5:25 PM UTC

panick21_ wrote: post #287

deltarholamda wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Where it exists you can see that there is tremendous demand for it. Everybody loves public transit until they get panhandled for the jillionth time, or they witness (or experience) violence, or some other anti-social behavior sours the whole thing. I spent some time in NYC during the Giuliani years, after the city did a lot of work cleaning it all up: stopping turnstile jumpers, removing graffiti, more police, etc.…

> Public transit requires a certain level of unspoken agreement. "We will all behave in this manner." That literally all of society. The American idea that you live in suburban home that is a quasi gated community, drive into a parking garage, then go up to an office, only interact with workmates and then driving back out with no social interaction other then work is just not how most society worked for all of histor…

And social policy. You have too many people wandering around in a psychological state one negative interaction away from an incident that could easily escalate to murder.

Such people exist in every country, yes, but fewer in most places.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#640

Post by darkamaul » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 5:27 PM UTC

Saline9515 wrote: post #547

elAhmo wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with a family and a car, can't you use public transport for that? You can walk to local parks and have a doctor that is relatively nearby, but Paris has very extensive transport network and it is perfectly fine to move around without a car. No one is arguing you should take your sick kid on a bike for one hour ride.

- Paris' subway doesn't have elevators, impossible with a stroller. - Buses are crowded, very slow, and being blocked for >1h because of protests or roadworks with a sick newborn is a rather unpleasant experience. I did it already. And in general, public transportation in Paris has degraded a lot. Who wants to explain to his 3-year-old son what this fine gentleman is doing while heating crack in the back of the train…

There’s a reason why most Parisian families use a Yoyo stroller or another lightweight, foldable model: you can easily take them on the subway, and if you need help with the stairs, people are always willing to help (I’ve never seen anyone refuse).

Buses can be slow during peak hours because of traffic congestion, but during the day they’re fairly reliable and have plenty of space for strollers.

The Paris Metro is extensive, but I think you’re making very broad generalizations. It’s extremely rare (though unpleasant) to come across a drug addict, and I’ve never seen one during the day.

(Disclaimer: I live in central Paris with a newborn.)