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New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

governor.state.nm.us

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Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#631

Post by habinero »

tbirdny wrote: post #536
pavel_lishin wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a lot of friends who'd be willing to watch your children for 9 hours a day while you work, especially young infants?

No one does because everyone needs to have a job to survive in the US today. It used to be that many couples could survive on a single income. Not only did that allow them to better care for their kids, it also allowed them to help their siblings, parents, other family members, friends, neighbors, and community.

> It used to be that many couples could survive on a single income

Historically, this is not true - women have always taken in work. Living on someone else's dime was for the wealthy only. The post-war years were a historical anomaly.

Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#632

Post by afavour »

savagej wrote: post #447
afavour wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a parent I’m going to disagree with your disagreement. I was lucky enough to get months of parental leave initially. I am glad I got it but at the same time I don't buy the tender, formative, vulnerable stuff too deeply. They're poop and vomit machines that nap and have very, very little interaction with the world around them. The primary benefit was for me to not have to work while deeply sleep deprived. As my fi…

You're an idiot. I have a toddler. They are absorbing everything and gaining a personality from day one. You are not the one doing it.

Your presumption is that the parent is the only appropriate person to guide a child as they absorb their world. I disagree. I think teachers and peers play a valuable role too.

(In fact, judging by the way you conduct yourself online I’d say the more influences t your child has beyond you the better)

Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#633

Post by surfmike »

yencabulator wrote: post #502
surfmike wrote: post #228

If AI does actually lead to large economic gains but also high unemployment, then we should be able to invest most in social programs like this and let people make a good living providing them. (as well as all other workers, through wage subsidies) That said, if you don’t have a job… do you need childcare? But I’m assuming there will still be enough demand from those employed

If you don't have childcare, how will you get a job?

I think I muddled my point, I think with abundance we should offer childcare to people who have jobs. Even maybe some hours for those that don’t too.

Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#634

Post by abustamam »

Draiken wrote: post #628
abustamam wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The western idea of individualism and the villification of the lower-class has really fucked American society. "I don't wanna pay taxes for [insert thing that doesn't benefit me]" or "if you're poor it's your fault" in a country where costs of basic necessities like medical care, insurance, food, housing, school, are skyrocketing is insane to me. I thought everyone had the right to life, liberty, and property, but it…

Honestly reading comments in these types of news on HN makes me lose some hope in humanity. People are actively against anything that's not helpful for them and salivate at the idea of somehow profiting on top without a care for the human needs underneath it all. They cite government inefficiencies when they just want to "fix them" by pocketing the difference. It's depressing how much capitalism propaganda is deeply…

Yeah. It's easy to feel powerless too.

Yeah the govt has its inefficiencies, but an inefficient program that helps people is better than no program at all. So what if it means that I pay a few extra (hundred, thousand) dollars a year in taxes? If that's the cost for housing people, I'd gladly pay it.

And as if the appeal to humanity weren't enough, how about the fact that it'll keep the streets of SF and other cities cleaner?

Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#635

Post by ksenzee »

WalterBright wrote: post #619
ksenzee wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because women have been shunted into childcare for millennia doesn’t mean we’re naturally better at it. It just means we’ve had to do it. Do you similarly think it’s a rarity for men not to be cut out for subsistence farming?

The bond between a mother and her child is very special and intense. That doesn't happen with a paid caregiver. Heck, I was glued to my mom till I was 4. I'm sad for you that you don't seem to understand this, with words like "shunted". My parents are decades gone, but I miss them every day. Not so for any paid caregiver. My grandmother died when my dad was 9. In his 90s, he forgot that she was dead, and would cry wo…

Firstly, I am a mother with two children, so no need to educate me about the bond between mother and child. Secondly, of course children love their parents. You seem to be conflating parenting with daytime childcare. This is a common misconception among people who romanticize stay-at-home parenting: it’s either “mom stays home during the workday with kids” or “the state raises the kids.” You may not be aware, since you say your mom stayed home with you, that parents whose kids are in daycare do still get a lot of parenting time in. They see their kids a lot. They feed them, clothe them, kiss their scraped knees, help them with homework, put them to bed, take them to the park and movies and church. Daycare isn’t 24/7. It’s also not some kind of robotic state-sponsored apparatus. Childcare providers are people who have chosen taking care of kids as their career, they often have a degree in early childhood education, and they love the kids they take care of.

And I do not apologize for the word “shunted.” No woman in a modern society should be forced to choose between having a child and being something other than a full-time childcare provider. Men don’t face that choice; women shouldn’t either.

Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#636

Post by kortilla »

kelnos wrote: post #553
SilverElfin wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not any more selfish than wanting subsidy for childcare. A voucher system is about choice. Parents get to have some financial assistance to make it possible for them to stay at home and be with their kids, or to provide their children with experiences that aren’t just sitting in the daycare center’s room. If they want to do things differently, why shouldn’t they be able to? Why does providing assistance have to…

If I as a taxpayer am going to subsidize someone else's activity, then why shouldn't I get a say in how they perform that activity? If it costs $100/child at a daycare facility, but $200/child for someone to be a stay-at-home parent, and you're asking me, a random taxpayer, to pay for one of those for someone else, from a financial perspective I will likely prefer to pay for the former. Now, I personally don't get to…

The ask isn’t for more for the parents who stay at home, it’s for the equal amount.

In your system you’ve created a messed up incentive where parents are better off just sending the kid to the daycare and having the mom sit at home and do absolutely nothing.

Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#637

Post by jmpman »

ryandrake wrote: post #506
slg wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One thing is that politically it's easier for benefits to remain sticky if everyone benefits from it vs a subpopulation. That's why universal income has stronger support than welfare benefits. It is funny to say this in this specific conversation. The exact logic you are using to support rebates for stay at home parents applies to childless people. So why are you drawing the line exactly where you are drawing it an…

If the logic was applied even more generally, it would read: "If any Group X gets Benefit Y, then everyone must also get Benefit Y." Applied universally, it totally defeats the point of subsidies.

I’m unable to get the electric car tax credit for this year because my income is too high. However I’m likely to be laid off next year. Seems like I should get the benefit as my group status will change.

Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#638

Post by ksenzee »

gedy wrote: post #519
dzink wrote: post #12

This is fantastic! I hope they succeed and there is no abuse or other issues, because it will show how much an economy can grow when women are allowed to work to their full potential. Families who were previously in poverty because the mom would struggle to pay for childcare to work can now have assurance kids are ok while the mom can pursue jobs, start her own small business (huge chunk of businesses are small busin…

I think this just makes it harder for single income families tbh. Not a social or moral commentary, just unfortunate observation

How so? What do they have now that they will be losing under the new system? It seems like having childcare paid for would be beneficial to any single working parent.

Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#639

Post by kortilla »

notahacker wrote: post #621
mothballed wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your position is what, the people who currently weren't getting free daycare don't need it because they were already getting by? You went straight to what people "need" but then ignored the whole schtick we're discussing was NM going from means-tested to universal childcare even for people that don't "need" it. I'm willing to accept that position, I'm not necessarily for free childcare, only believe that if childc…

> You went straight to what people "need" but then ignored the whole schtick we're discussing was NM going from means-tested to universal childcare even for people that don't "need" it. Nope, I'm the one explicitly not ignoring the major rationale behind providing universal free childcare, which is that it removes a massive disincentive to using childcare (it's expensive), with the result that parents are less likely…

> I mean, if there is some stay at home parent that finds looking after their own children during the daytime such a burden they "need" an extra $1k per child per month to do it... they should probably just use the free childcare.

The fact that you argue for daycare workers to be paid but not parents is honestly astonishing.

“No, we will not give you $100/day for your kid but we will happily give $100/day to BabyCorp to watch your kid” is a really fucked up policy stance unless you explicitly want to break children apart from their families. If that’s the goal, just explicitly say it.

Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#640

Post by WalterBright »

habinero wrote: post #624
WalterBright wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bond between a mother and her child is very special and intense. That doesn't happen with a paid caregiver. Heck, I was glued to my mom till I was 4. I'm sad for you that you don't seem to understand this, with words like "shunted". My parents are decades gone, but I miss them every day. Not so for any paid caregiver. My grandmother died when my dad was 9. In his 90s, he forgot that she was dead, and would cry wo…

Those are nice feelings _you_ have, but they don't have anything to do with women being forced into childcare. You're romanticizing things you never had to do.

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