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‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

latimes.com

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Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#631

Post by ohdeargodno »

halflife wrote: post #483
istjohn wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the "Jewish" in Jewish state that lies at the root of the conflict, isn't it? There aren't many options to maintain a dominant ethnic identity in a democracy when the land the nation was founded on was already inhabited by people who don't share in that identity. The only option is to either cede that ethnic identity or to engage in mass displacement and disenfranchisement. It's exceedingly subtle the way ethno-…

Jews were kicked out of all the Arab nations they lived in, were persecuted in Europe, and you think that they shouldn’t get a sovereign country for themselves? Should the Kurds get one? Tibetans? Catalonias? Scottish?

>and you think that they shouldn’t get a sovereign country for themselves?

That's a really easy question: no.

Plenty of people don't have sovereign countries for themselves. Some of them persecuted, some of them integrated by force into other countries. Countries are not owed. They simply are. Tibet is being wholly integrated and controlled by China. Catalonia is somewhat asking for it, native americans are being relegated as second class citizens, and aboriginals in Australia are being left to die. Romanis do not have a country based around their culture.

Jews should absolutely be protected, in whichever country they are. That does not make the world owe them a country. Countries are not owed, they just are. As it stands, Israel is, but as a result of what they have done, not because it was owed to them.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#632

Post by robertoandred »

buyucu wrote: post #541
robertoandred wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should Israel allow themselves to be attacked by Syria and Lebanon? Did you miss what Lebanon did to people in northern Israel? Seems like you think Jews should just sacrifice themselves for some reason.

The fascist regime in Tel Aviv has been attacking almost every other country in the region. Israel is a country led by religious fanatics.

You're avoiding the question. Why is Israel expected to sacrifice itself when it's attacked?

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#633

Post by JumpCrisscross »

atoav wrote: post #581
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which miltary body other than any linked to one of the conflict parties did Israel propose to do the peacekeeping? Hamas didn’t counter with a preferred peacekeeping composition, they rejected peacekeeping to retain their monopoly on violence (and Gaza’s resources). To the extent there are evils in this story, they’re the leadership of Hamas and Likud.

So your answer is None? I didn't claim Isreal set forth a realistic peace keeping plan, you did. And you failed to bring the receipts. What you say here is the equivalent of Russia proposing to Ukraine that the war could be ended if they install the Russian National Guard as peace keepers in their country and then saying: "But Ukraine didn't make a counterproposal". Yes, because that kind of proposal is an insult to…

> If a party to any war proposes a peacekeeping force that is already fighting in the war, it is not a credible peace offer

This is fair. My point is Hamas has shown zero interest in an international peacekeeping force in Gaza. A lack of enthusiasm possibly only matched by the nations that would have to provide said force.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#634

Post by [deleted] »

Liron wrote: post #346
swat535 wrote: post #205

Can someone living in Israel help me understand what is going on right now? What does the political climate look like in Israel? Do majority of people support what is happening, if so why? if not, how is the government executing this? Further, has this had any impact on the overall relationship between Jewish people worldwide and those residing in Israel? if so, how? I know that the media is all over the place and it…

Israeli here, can't directly answer your question since I've lived in the US for 99% of my adult life, but I consider myself pro-Israel and resent the way Israel is currently/always being portrayed. I see the key problem as people removing context: Context for why the current situation could easily be different if Hamas acted/acts differently, and context for why there is no "just stop fighting" option that leaves Is…

[deleted]

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#635

Post by homefree »

ivape wrote: post #630
homefree wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically nothing portrayed by the main stream media / international press on this issue is accurately represented. Most of it is either wildly ignorant or actively hostile (or both). The Free Press, Call Me Back (podcast), and Breaking Israeli History (podcast) do a good job. Also we will dance again and October 8 (films). I'd also recommend Douglas Murray's On Democracies and Death Cults to get some perspective if…

Okay, you figured it out. Explain this one to me: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-destruction... We would consider someone fucking uneducated if in 2025 they tried to justify the Iraq/Afghanistan war. The same will be true for everything you wrote as time goes on.

Hamas leaves traps in the buildings with explosives when they leave an area to kill Israelis. The IDF has to detonate these traps to make an area safe, this is the cause of most of the destruction. John Spencer talks about the details if you're genuinely curious.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#636

Post by crote »

Adverblessly wrote: post #365
swat535 wrote: post #205

Can someone living in Israel help me understand what is going on right now? What does the political climate look like in Israel? Do majority of people support what is happening, if so why? if not, how is the government executing this? Further, has this had any impact on the overall relationship between Jewish people worldwide and those residing in Israel? if so, how? I know that the media is all over the place and it…

> Do majority of people support what is happening, if so why? if not, how is the government executing this? If you are asking specifically about the Hilltop Youth, I believe most people understand them to be somewhere between extremists and jewish terrorists and do not support their actions. The government (well, Ben-Gvir) can continue to support them (within limits of plausible deniability) as long as they are in po…

> I'd remind you that the IDF is the people's army and conscription is mandatory.

That's pretty irrelevant when they don't put you in front of a firing squad for draft dodging, isn't it? If it is possible to refuse - either by draft dodging or by complying poorly enough that it basically becomes sabotage - the fact that you chose not to do so means you are complicit.

To bring this argument to the extreme: would you murder your own father if there was a $10 fine on not doing so? It's the law, after all! You're just following the law, so you cannot possibly be held accountable for your actions, right?

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#637

Post by Shacklz »

alkyon wrote: post #590
mitchbob wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might help: https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v47/n13/adam-shatz/the-world... https://archive.ph/2025.07.19-181407/https://www.lrb.co.uk/t...

Thank you, this is what I wanted to know: "‘If you feed Gazans, they eventually eat you,’ the Israeli stand-up comedian Gil Kopatz posted. ‘It’s not genocide, it’s pesticide.’ According to a survey commissioned by Penn State, more than 80 per cent of Israeli Jews now support the expulsion of Gazans. Compassion for Palestinians is taboo except among a fringe of radical activists. When Ayman Odeh, a Palestinian member…

> "‘If you feed Gazans, they eventually eat you,’ the Israeli stand-up comedian Gil Kopatz posted. ‘It’s not genocide, it’s pesticide.’

I have such a hard time understanding how such statements can find an accepting audience in this day and age; in Israel of all places.

Replace "Israeli stand-up comedian" with "some Nazi propagandist in the 30s/40s" and "Gazans" with "Jews", and I'm sure it would be a perfectly accurate historical quote.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#638

Post by graemep »

sillyfluke wrote: post #381
graemep wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the numbers who voted for Hamas I guess its a pretty high proportion. I think (from the perspective of having lived in a country undergoing a civil war for many years) one of the problems the West has in dealing with issues like this is that people imagine that there is a bad side to oppose, and a good side you want to win. Very often the impacts on societies of lengthy conflicts means that there are no clear g…

>Given the numbers who voted for Hamas You mean of course, 20 years ago in 2006 when the last election was held in Gaza. In which they didn't even manage to break 50% I might add and with the Israeli government's blessing as Netanyahu was fond of boasting before Oct 7th --- a far lower number than the number of Israelis that still support the IDF's current military actions.

Do you think it likely Hamas support has declined since 2006?

This suggest Hamas is still supported: https://www.npr.org/2024/07/26/g-s1-12949/khalil-shikaki-pal...

> In which they didn't even manage to break 50%

Less than 50% has dropped to around 40%. Still a very large chunk of the population, and still makes them by far the largest party.

It is very common for parties to win elections without an outright majority, in many countries. The current British government had only 33% of the of the vote at the last election.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#639

Post by giardini »

lawlessone wrote: post #542
halflife wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a movement for native Americans sovereignty?

There should be. But presumably its harder since most of them were killed. Not sure how the colonization of America justifies other colonization's. Unless you think everyone is owed a 1 free genocide pass?

lawlessone says: "...since most of them were killed.

Not sure how the colonization of America justifies other colonization's.

Unless you think everyone is owed a 1 free genocide pass?"

Most of them died from disease. Far more of them died from disease than died from say, hand to hand combat or warfare on the plains.

The American Indians were toast as soon as the first coughing European stepped ashore. The native Americans had no immunity to the stew of diseases that had been brewing in Europe and Asia for centuries, so the Indians simply died. Once an Indian had a disease (s)he could spread it to other indians (s)he met. The flame front of infection raged ahead of the white man across the continent. The "mountain men" encountered regions where entire societies were struck down: bodies everywhere, tools, lodging, structures left intact but virtually no one was around (and many the infected likely fled to more remote lands, worsening the spread).

One estimate is that 61 million people lived in the Americas prior to European contact. Between 1492 and 1600 about 50 million native Americans died of disease.

"Killed?" Yes but rarely intentionally. "Genocide?" No.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#640

Post by PicassoCTs »

swat535 wrote: post #205

Can someone living in Israel help me understand what is going on right now? What does the political climate look like in Israel? Do majority of people support what is happening, if so why? if not, how is the government executing this? Further, has this had any impact on the overall relationship between Jewish people worldwide and those residing in Israel? if so, how? I know that the media is all over the place and it…

They do not have the luxury to hallucinate neighbours who just want to life like the west. They just see reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1vH2H6oIo4
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