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What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

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Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#631

Post by leoedin »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #589
ambicapter wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to be an "extinction apologist" or whatever to think that we'll probably solve the problem before we go from 7 BILLION people to not enough humans for healthy genetic diversity. We've rescued animal species from extinction with populations of <100.

>that we'll probably solve the problem before we go from 7 BILLION people to not enough humans for This just goes to show how little you've ever considered the problem. I don't think you're stupid (probably), so let me get you started... It's not "from 7 billion to not enough", because right now we don't have 7 billion. We only have the generation(s) that are from 0 to 40 years old... everyone older doesn't even coun…

I think it's actually quite likely that quite a few "dominant" cultures - both in terms of nations and groups within nations - will effectively die out.

But humanity almost certainly won't? Why? Because there are sub-groups within humanity who have much higher fertility rates. As long as there are groups of people which are large enough to have viable genetic diversity, and recognise that a high birth rate is crucial for the continued existence of their culture, there will be humans.

Realistically, that means the decline of western liberal ideas and the growth of more extreme religious groups.

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#632

Post by Mawr »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #293
itake wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some men are stepping up. but others aren't. Many women don't want to have kids because they can't find a qualified partner they feel will be a good dad and good husband.

They'll also reject this sort of man at the start of a relationship for being "too nice".

"Too nice" or "too indecisive", "not confident", "not projecting the ability to take care of and protect her and her children"?

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#633

Post by potato3732842 »

Mawr wrote: post #630
epolanski wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1. I'm 38 and the overwhelming majority of women I had relationships with had the maturity of a teenager well in their 30s. Barely able to take care of themselves financially, mentally, physically, let alone of a family. I seriously felt, except once, I had daughters rather than significant others. Mind you, I might've been unlucky, but the narrative that women are more mature than men, might be true on large statis…

That you've consistently chosen immature women to have relationships with tells us nothing about the average woman. You weren't unlucky, you specifically made choices that led to these outcomes. Had you chosen women purely randomly, it'd be a different discussion, but you hadn't. You've done the equivalent of consistently driving above the speed limit and subsequently complaining about the police being too eager to g…

>That you've consistently chosen immature women to have relationships with tells us nothing about the average woman

He's restating a complaint that's approximately as old as time. We've got records of roman male heads of household lamenting basically the same thing. He did not voice a novel or even close to novel-ish complaint.

>Had you chosen women purely randomly,

Have you met men? They're not exactly discerning except at the very tail end of the "yeah this one is worth giving a ring to" funnel. They don't necessarily have a perfect picture of what's available in the market but they're not wildly out of touch.

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#634

Post by nappingcat »

Larrikin wrote: post #581
Aeolun wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> actually teen pregnancy wasn't so bad I mean, it was a thing for most of human history. There’s a reason biology makes you capable of having children at a young age. Isn’t it kinda bizarre that we think it’s weird?

Human biology allows your body to get sick and die from bacteria and viruses, sometimes floating in the air. Human biology let's you get a cut on your hand and die from infection. That was a thing for most of history. Do you think it's weird we don't just let people suffer from those things as well?

> Human biology allows your body to get sick and die from bacteria and viruses, sometimes floating in the air.

Not in 99.9% of cases. It's such a twisted disrespect to millions of years of evolution of the immune system. If you had no innate immune system, even being a bubble boy in a hospital with the most advanced equipment could keep you alive only for so long. It's like saying "police lets people get murdered".

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#636

Post by squigz »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #446
crtified wrote: post #178

My anecdotal experience, which illustrates how changing societal norms may be contributing. Around 1960, my grandmother scandalously fell pregnant with my mother in her late teens. The child was adopted out - well, not out - in. To her own grandmother, to be raised as a "younger sister" to her own mother. Around 1980, my mother scandalously fell pregnant with me, in her late teens. Despite family disapproval, the chi…

Having kids when you are young and financially not established is just irresponsible, but particularly female bodies don’t do well having kids older when you are established enough to do so responsibly. I’m having this problem right now with my spouse (we have a kid, but are thinking about another), it’s just super hard to get pregnant without medical help.

Don't the difficulties in pregnancy related to age tend to come up around 40 or older?

I don't think the choices need to be "have children at 19 years old" or "have children at 40" - surely having kids at 30-35 is still physically fine and gives you some time to become more financially secure?

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#637

Post by squigz »

pjc50 wrote: post #625
crtified wrote: post #178

My anecdotal experience, which illustrates how changing societal norms may be contributing. Around 1960, my grandmother scandalously fell pregnant with my mother in her late teens. The child was adopted out - well, not out - in. To her own grandmother, to be raised as a "younger sister" to her own mother. Around 1980, my mother scandalously fell pregnant with me, in her late teens. Despite family disapproval, the chi…

> scandalously Yes. Society hates teen pregnancy. Some societies will carve out an exception for married teens, which is a whole other can of worms. This is not a change in norms, it's the victory of the norms. People have been told not to have children until they are ready, and finally compliance with that is pretty high. There were even worse alternatives, like the mass grave at Tuam or the Victorian practice of "b…

> The short way to get a baby boom is to make it OK to be a less than perfect parent.

There are still lots and lots of shitty parents out there.

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#638

Post by squigz »

thrownearacc wrote: post #405
crtified wrote: post #178

My anecdotal experience, which illustrates how changing societal norms may be contributing. Around 1960, my grandmother scandalously fell pregnant with my mother in her late teens. The child was adopted out - well, not out - in. To her own grandmother, to be raised as a "younger sister" to her own mother. Around 1980, my mother scandalously fell pregnant with me, in her late teens. Despite family disapproval, the chi…

Oh, I’m sure some “anecdotal” stories will come up, painting a perfect picture of the “good old days” — without calling them that, of course. Here's one then: Take my great-grandfather, for example. 56, falls head over heels for a 14-year-old girl from church, and boom — 30 days later, they’re married. 8 months later, my grandfather’s born. They stayed married for 50 years. My grandmother was 16 when she married my 4…

Your 56 year old great grandfather married a 14 year old girl and was married for 50 years?

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#639

Post by squigz »

KolibriFly wrote: post #602
crtified wrote: post #178

My anecdotal experience, which illustrates how changing societal norms may be contributing. Around 1960, my grandmother scandalously fell pregnant with my mother in her late teens. The child was adopted out - well, not out - in. To her own grandmother, to be raised as a "younger sister" to her own mother. Around 1980, my mother scandalously fell pregnant with me, in her late teens. Despite family disapproval, the chi…

It's a perspective that often gets lost in the macro-level fertility discussions: how many births never happen not because people don’t want kids, but because the only off-ramp they might've taken got paved over by modern expectations, norms and etc

In the past, how many people had kids not because they wanted to but because of social expectations, norms, etc?

Re: What caused the 'baby boom'? What would it take to have another?

#640

Post by potato3732842 »

Mawr wrote: post #632
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'll also reject this sort of man at the start of a relationship for being "too nice".

"Too nice" or "too indecisive", "not confident", "not projecting the ability to take care of and protect her and her children"?

And the men that eventually wrap their minds around what it takes to not be judged that way become not all that interested in marrying most women.
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